Transcript 0:00 Welcome on in to another action-packed and live edition of the Between the Hash Marks podcast. 0:05 As always, I'm Matt Lombardo, joined by my friend, colleague, mentor, and the purveyor of the Too Deep Zone, Mike Tanier, is here. And you know what they say about the best laid plans. 0:13 Well, we planned on being in Indianapolis. 0:16 We planned on coming to you from the lobby of the Westin, or from, uh, Cafe Patachou at a booth over our, our brunch of eggs and Belgian waffles, or from the, a corner of the convention center. 0:30 Instead, I'm in the football command center, Tanier's in his home office. But Mike, hey, we're here. We're here. 0:36 Our best laid plans are laying under about 13 and a half inches of snow here in, uh, here in southern New Jersey, although it has melted down to maybe eight or nine inches of snow. But my flight got canceled for Monday. 0:50 What they offered me for Tuesday would've been Around the World in 80 Days situation in terms of layovers. I'm heading out on Wednesday. 0:56 You unfortunately can't really find a way to make it work one way or the other to get out there. No, it was just a disaster. 1:01 I give you a lot of credit, 'cause you had the foresight to rebook before the blizzard actually hit. Yeah. 1:06 And I thought, "Okay, maybe I'll, I'll roll the dice and see if, you know, the, the little, uh, Delta fairies can-" Yeah... magically get the, the runways cleared and ready to go. 1:15 [laughs] Instead, my flight gets canceled late on Sunday night. Yeah. And I can't get on a flight until Wednesday morning. I only planned on being in Indianapolis until the Thursday afternoon. Right. 1:27 And by then, [laughs] it would've been flying in, having dinner with you, and flying out. So unfortunately- [laughs]... you and I will grab lunch like we did a year ago after the combine. 1:35 Uh, we'll meet up in Philly for a lunch and some cocktails, but I, I was not gonna go to that expense for 30 hours in Indianapolis. 1:42 No, a- and the main thing we are missing, and one reason w- that this is kind of getting to us a little bit, and like, uh, this is less than ideal, today is the day when all of the coaches and general managers speak to the media, and you and I would normally be there, going from podium, to podium, to podium, asking questions, listening, hearing... 1:59 Not just getting the quotes, which you can get the quotes, you know, from other sources, but hearing the vibe and the flow of things. 2:05 Not only that, but sometimes we are able to get these side interviews, uh, with some of these, uh, these personalities. 2:11 And then of course sometimes we catch them later on at night, at midnight, when they're having a, a cocktail somewhere. And even if we don't get to them, we get to talk to the agent who talked to them. 2:20 We're missing all of this. So we're kind of- All of it... working off of videos and, uh, and, and tweets and skeets- Skeets... and things like that. Threads. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 2:29 And, and, and, and aggregations of the aggregations. Oh. So it's, it's a process. Bear with us. 2:34 And instead of, you know, having scotch at Prime with a general manager or an agent, I, I was in a, a snowman-building- Yeah, that's-... competition in my neighborhood. 2:44 We built this great snowman that I thought was really cool, but he blew over last night. 2:48 And of course, I walk over, I, I'm walking my daughter to the bus this morning, and I notice that my next-door neighbor, lo- love him, great dude, we're beer buddies in the, the summertime, 2:57 he had to go and build this snowman that was eight and a half feet tall, and- Really?... 3:01 with a hat, and with like, you know, he grabbed some of the evergreen branches off of the tree to give him hair, and I'm like, "Dude, what are you doing? 3:08 Do you have to really outdo me on the snowman build when I'm going through not being in Indianapolis? You gotta, like, throw salt into that wound? Come on, man." Did it, did his blow over? 3:18 Dude, I, I'm tell, I should take a photo of this- Yeah... and put it on Blue Sky. This thing is literally, like, 14 feet tall. 3:24 [laughs] And, and it, I, I think it'll, when I'm having, like, uh, a well-crafted blonde Americano beer in July, I think this- Yeah... snowman will still be there. 3:33 It'll be getting closer and closer to your house, but smaller and smaller. Right. Right. [laughs] We've gone completely off the rails, but, you know- Yeah... we're not in Indianapolis, but that does- No... 3:42 not mean that there isn't value. Go read Monday's walkthrough at The Too Deep Zone. It's tremendous content. You can read what I have in Four Downs from Monday. 3:51 I'll have a notebook coming out on, uh, tomorrow morning, kind of what I'm hearing and texting people off what we're reading from the podiums today- Sure... that Mike alluded to at Between the Hash Marks. 4:01 And if you enjoy the show, make sure that you subscribe on the Apple Podcast store. Check us out on YouTube. Um, it's @mattlombardo975. But Mike, we have a five-star review that we can read. Oh, good. 4:13 Thank you very much. This is gonna make my day. Let's go. Yes. As always, if you enjoy the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, leave us the five-star reviews, as Ken Rainey did, longtime- Okay... 4:22 reader to both of our Substacks. He says, quote, "This is one of my favorite football podcasts, and the only one that I never miss. 4:29 The balance between what Matt and Mike provide in analysis and their perspective is very unique. Especially recommended if you're local to the northeast, but everyone can enjoy." Thank you very much, Ken. 4:40 You have been a reader, subscriber for many, many years. Hey, uh, longtime readers and subscribers, you could do this too. I'm not saying... Ken, Ken did it. 4:48 Uh, leave some of you guys, like, you know, I see you in the comment th- threads, I see you on the DVOA Discord, hey, come leave, leave us a five-star review. It's the, it's the little things. It means a lot. 4:57 It means a lot. Thank you, K- I'm not calling everyone else out. I'm not calling everyone else out for not doing something totally free that would take 10 seconds and help our careers. 5:07 I'm not calling anyone else out, simply thanking Ken. What would really grow the show, you can let us know what you like about the podcast, what you don't like about the podcast, any guests that you'd like us to get. 5:17 And as always, if you wanna rip us, you know, tell us what you don't like- Yeah... 5:20 uh, you know, say that it's, it's ridiculous, so I'm talking about snowmen when I should be in Indianapolis, leave it in the five-star review. Just leave five stars and we'll, we'll read it. 5:28 We'll, we'll, even if it's, like, embarrassing to either one of us, we will read it on the show. 5:32 And let me say this: you will be remembering 25 years from now that snowman contest when all of those combines have melted together into one giga combine in your brain. You will remember that. 5:42 So there is a silver lining to this. You made me- memories that last a lifetime. I was watching reruns of Bewitched on the, uh, on, like, uh, MeTV or something like that. 5:51 So you, you were out with children in your community, and I gotta give you credit for that. It was a lot of fun. 5:57 And as somebody pointed out on Blue Sky today, at least you had snow day memories with the kids, and I wouldn't trade those for anything.Uh, Michael Allen Brewer checks in, "Are there any NFL teams that have been similarly stranded in the blizzard and will also miss the combine?" 6:10 Funny you bring that up. Elliot Wolf was at the podium, um, in Indie today and said- Mm-hmm... that they had to get some of their staff onto different travel arrangements. 6:20 Some of them wouldn't be making it from the- Mm-hmm... New England area to Indianapolis. Joe Shane said that they had to juggle some of their plans. 6:28 So I think that it's a, it's a lot different for teams this time around because they, they couldn't get out there either. There's no Amtrak that runs from- Yeah, no... New York or Boston to Indianapolis. 6:38 What do you think is this, Europe? Right. [laughs] Think we have some United States here? Right, right. 6:42 No, they do have things like charter flights and things that can give them a little bit more flexibility and bigger budgets. So if they decide to get, keep people out on Saturday, they, they could do that. 6:52 Uh, but it is interesting. Like, the Eagles did a pre-combine presser, I guess yesterday or the day before. 6:58 Uh, Howie speaks later, Nick Sirianni speaks later, but I th- don't know if they did that because they knew there might be an issue for some of the media or not, 'cause I don't remember them doing that in the past. 7:07 But we got good Eagles information and quotes, um, already. We don't have to wait for them 'cause th- they spoke to everybody, uh, yesterday. And then sometimes you get the best stuff into those beat writer- Yeah... 7:19 centric press availabilities. Oh, yeah. 7:21 And usually at the combine after the, the, the GM or the coach is done on the podium, th- they'll pull the local beat writers aside and give you 15 minutes away from the cameras, away from the- Yeah... 7:32 national reporters, away from, uh, the, the, the hullabaloo of the podium. But the big quote, the money quote from Nick Sirianni that really is making the rounds this morning is on A.J. Brown. 7:42 Quote, "I think we're still in a spot like I can't guarantee how anything is going to play out into next season," unquote. And Mike, this has been the worst-kept secret around the entire league. 7:53 Basically, since the, the final gun in the playoff loss to the San Francisco 49ers, when I was reaching out to scouts and executives, and multiple people in multiple buildings told me that the Eagles might need to move off of A.J. 8:06 Brown to salvage that offense next year. It sounds like at bare minimum, they're at least entertaining conversations with a thought about trading A.J. Brown. What was your takeaway from those comments? 8:17 Yeah, exactly that, and Howie Roseman spoke, and he says only, "Well, we're always listening," quote. That was one of his quotes. 8:23 I love the way Sirianni, part of that, at like the tail end of the quote you just made, uh, "I'm thinking I'm going to be the coach next season, but you can't guarantee anything past tomorrow." 8:34 When, when NFL head coaches start saying, "You know, a comet could hit. Who knows? We could... The- A tsunami could take us all away," when they start talking about that like that, it's bad. 8:45 When they're talking like that at the end of February, it's really, [laughs] really bad. But of course, yeah. Well, yeah, I was gonna say, you've lost your Hall of Fame offensive line coach- Yeah... 8:55 decided just to pack up and leave. You've had to assuage your veteran well-regarded defensive coordinator. You had to, you know, toss your offensive coordinator overboard. Yeah. 9:06 Nick Sirianni's been through the rigors this off-season. This has not been- Right... a great off-season for Nick Sirianni or for the Eagles, and it's only more pivotal and judgmental from here. 9:16 Yeah, and it's February 24th, right. Nothing has happened yet in terms of personnel. But when he starts talking like that, that's, that's Nick saying, "I'm already in a bad mood. 9:25 Like, I'm here to talk to you for 15 minutes. I'm already in a bad mood. You mentioned A.J. Brown, and I'm a, a bad mood. I don't even wanna like put like any kind of positive spin on this. 9:33 I, I don't even wanna s- give that like, that little pile of BS, that little sandwich of BS that you sometimes make. Well, you know, A.J.'s a heck of a player. We love him. We love what he's done for that." 9:42 You can't even get that stuff out. You end up saying, "Eh, who knows? Maybe lightning will strike tomorrow, and I won't have to deal with this anymore." It is definitely a sign they're looking. They're trying. 9:53 Yeah, you can't even muster the Joe Shane from the podium today. We want explosiveness and guys who can score touchdowns. You can't even say that we want- No... our offense to be explosive, and A.J. 10:03 Brown's an explosive player. You can't even have those words come out of your mouth. And, and you know- Right... 10:07 I, I, I've kind of felt just from conversations that at bare minimum, they're gonna look around, and they're gonna take phone calls. And, and you know, I wrote it in Monday's Four Downs column, Mike. 10:16 This feels a lot to me. Like if you remember 10 years ago, and it was Dave Gettleman and John Dorsey sitting- Oh... in Lucas Oil Stadium, and the cameras show them in this animated conversation. Mm-hmm. 10:30 And 10 days later, the Giants trade Odell Beckham Jr.- Odell Beckham... to the Cleveland Browns. Mm-hmm. That feels like this A.J. 10:37 Brown situation, whatever happens, whether he's back in Philadelphia on a reworked contract to make everybody feel good and maybe create some trade deadline flexibility that isn't there right now- Mm-hmm... 10:47 whether he gets dealt next week, whether he gets dealt on draft night, whether he gets dealt July 5th- Yeah... it feels like the A.J. Brown's future is going to hang over and be the defining storyline of this combine. 11:00 It feels like it's a situation where the Eagles could go to A.J. Brown and his representation and say, "Can we move things around in the contract to make you easier to trade?" 11:10 Or, "If we put you in touch with this other team that wants to restructure your contract to make this trade go, are you willing to talk?" And A.J. Brown will be like, "Yeah, we're willing to talk. Get me out of here." 11:20 So that like there's a lot of motivation on the Eagles' side, on the, uh, uh, you know, and on Brown's side. Um, one thing I think is we're not gonna see anything until we get an Alex Pierce, uh, um- Contract... 11:32 franchise tagging. Yeah. Certainly a George Pickens franchise tagging, which they say they're going to do, but they're the Cowboys. They could forget how to do it, but they're gonna. 11:39 Th- someone there will know which button to push, uh, uh, to, to, to, to get the franchise tag on there so that all the teams who might be interested in Brown know who else is out there in free agency. 11:49 You wrote up a series of potential landing spots for A.J. Brown in these trades.I'll, I'll throw a couple of these at, at you- Yeah... 11:56 because I decided last week that it would be a good use of time to ask, you know, my sources around the league in different buildings, ask them, g- give them a team that, that would make some sense. 12:05 A, a team that- Yeah... you and I would probably off air over, over scotch say, "Hey, what if we went to this team or that team?" Gi- give them one team and ask them about the fit. 12:14 And I'm gonna throw them to you one by one with the quote and get your thoughts on it. Yeah. The first one's the Denver Broncos, and it's a quote from a defensive coach who played the Eagles last year. 12:23 Quote, "I think A.J.'s a very good player and the kind of player that Sean Payton would find a way to maximize his skill set." unquote. Broncos to me te- make a lot of sense. 12:32 Pair him with Courtland Sutton, you have Bo Nix, you need a weapon. C- could be a difference maker there and, and you still get a chance to chase rings. 12:39 You could be, he could be the guy there where you just throw it at him. Just throw it at him, he doesn't have where, don't worry if he's open or not, et cetera. Could be sort of a missing piece. 12:48 They could interpret it that way, absolutely. Uh, yeah, Sean Payton has success with a just sort of a straight vertical guy in his system in the past, so it makes sense. 12:57 I don't know if everything makes sense in terms of compensation and money, but, like, the fit makes sense. What else you got? Uh, next team up is the Buffalo Bills. Uh- Yeah... 13:06 a veteran scout told me, quote, "That would finally give Buffalo a big, strong, true number one wide receiver, but I d- doubt that even that kind of a move is enough to help the Bills have a good year in 2026. 13:17 I think looking at their roster, they're in for a huge fall off a cliff," unquote. I think they'd s- take a step back. Mm-hmm. 13:24 Um, I, I, I think that it was a half measure to fire Sean McDermott and not fire, uh, Brandon Beane, as you touched on in your Bill's off-season preview. Okay. But your thoughts on a Josh Allen, A.J. 13:35 Brown pairing, which to me feels like a springboard type of a move. Yes, but I don't think the money would work out any way you slice it. Right now, they're showing 12 million in cap debt for the Bills. 13:46 They've already restructured Spencer Brown, so that's probably out of date. They'll g- obviously get into the positives. They'll get into the, uh, we have some money, we have some maneuverability. But to throw in A.J. 13:57 Brown contract on top of that, I don't think the Bills are gonna be able to do that. As pretty as it looks on paper, it doesn't look on a, look good on a cap ledger. No, for sure. 14:06 Uh, the New England Patriots were a team that I had, and I received radio silence from anyone that I suggested this type of a move to, and I sent, like, three different text messages. So I don't know- Interesting... 14:16 if that's a s- I don't know if that's a sign that people think that it could actually happen. I don't know that it's a sign that maybe A.J. Brown loves Mike Vrabel more than Mike Vrabel loves A.J. 14:25 Brown, but- Right, that's- The Patriots and Drake May and, uh, Trevion Henderson and- Mm-hmm... Keshaun Moody, I, I could see A.J. Brown being that, that missing piece there, similar to in Denver. 14:38 Right, and he could kind of replace Diggs in that kind of slot right down to maybe somebody who's a little bit of a headache sometime. And one of the questions is what is the real Brown-Vrabel relationship? 14:48 Don't think it could be worse than the Brown-Sirianni relationship. 14:52 It sounds like it was more of, like, everything accelerated quickly and was about money, and Vrabel wasn't, doesn't really think in terms of suddenly it's a business decision you've got to make quickly. 15:02 I, I don't think that's his strength, you know? And, and, and that, like, one thing led to another, and that trade happened fast. So I don't think it would preclude that. They've got money. 15:10 I think they need a shot in the arm of playmakers. I could see Brown definitely being somebody. Again, you have Drake May, a go get it guy along the sidelines. 15:17 I mean, that's, that's Brown, and that would be a, that would be a good fit. A- a- and it's what they missed in that Super Bowl. It's what they couldn't get going until that dead cat- Yeah... 15:25 bounce of a drive in the fourth quarter against the Seahawks. 15:28 Now, at risk of you getting up and walking away and telling me to pound sand for the rest of the podcast, uh, the sleeper team that I have in here i- is the New York Jets with the $68 million- Yeah... 15:38 in cap space, five first round picks over the next two years. AFC scout told me, not employed by the Jets, said, quote, "Let's be honest, A.J. 15:46 Brown and Garrett Wilson would spontaneously combust with a mid-level or worse quarterback throwing them the football. Who is throwing them the football?" unquote. That's the problem. Yeah. 15:56 Who's throwing them the football? A- A.J. 15:58 Brown looks around and sees this, like, Brady Cook and, like, Ty Simpson, and he pulls out the Encyclopedia Britannica and the King James Bible on the sideline, and he just, uh, checks out right away. 16:08 Now, of course, that wouldn't be the Eagles problem, but from a sense of the Jets understanding, like, like, self-knowledge, we're not- Like where we are? Where, where we are right now? 16:17 Yeah, where we are right now, we're not gonna do this. The Bills could look at him and say, "Yeah, he can get us back to the Super Bowl if we make the, find the money." Patriots can make that same decision. 16:24 Jets would probably be looking at this saying, "We need somebody... If we're going for a receiver, we need somebody younger. We need somebody who isn't sort of half gated, who isn't sort of satiated." 16:33 'Cause even if you get Brown because of money, then you'd be getting Brown because of money. I got my ring. You're, you know how that goes. Come on. The Jets should know how that goes. [laughs] Sure. Yeah. Right. 16:45 And, and I've, I've talked about this a lot on, um, Paul Heslin Jr.'s Boy Green Daily Jets show. I do a weekly- Yeah... appearance on Sundays. And it's like everything about the Jets with all that money- Mm-hmm... 16:56 they c- they're kind of in limbo until they figure out the quarterback position. Yeah. Because you can't throw a lot of money a- at an Alec Pierce if he hits free agency, if you don't know who your quarterback is. 17:06 Mm-hmm. Y- you can't necessarily in good conscience and good faith trade for a player with A.J. Brown's personality and temperament without a solution at quarterback. Yeah. 17:15 Jets cap radio checks in in the comments, Malik Willis. I happen to think Ma- Malik Willis would be a great fit there. Yeah. 17:21 If you get Malik Willis, maybe it changes the conversation, but it feels like you need that quarterback shoe to drop before you do anything else, which is wild to me when you have all that cap space- Yeah... 17:33 that you should just be able to outbid just about anybody. But who would want to go there if you don't know- Good... who the quarterback is? You, you, you have, you, you are risking bringing in a bunch of paycheck guys. 17:41 That is absolutely the case there. And that is why when I look at the Jets cap space as opposed to, like, some of these other teams cap space, I'm like, how functional is it? 17:49 Because you're gonna have to drop several million for Willis, assuming you get him as your best case scenario, and then you're probably looking at can we bring in one other core guy, one other young core guy, I'd say. 18:00 So we bring in Willis, and then we bring in Pierce.And then you're almost like, "Well, the rest of this money, I guess you grab some veterans, and then you bank the rest of it for 2027." 18:09 You're s- you're, you're two years behind the eight ball, so to speak. So this isn't a team where I can look at and say, "Oh, spending spree's gonna solve the problem right away." And A.J. 18:17 Brown right, right away, that temperament isn't going to be the kind of guy who says, "Yeah, I'm gonna be here for a three-year re- rebuild. Let's go. I'm gonna be totally checked in the entire time." Right. 18:26 And, and the same sort of thing with Devonta Smith over there. There's a Garrett Wilson over here, so there, there's only so many- Yeah... footballs, which is kind of the problem- Right... 18:34 with the Eagles offense right now. And, and you'd be- Mm-hmm... walking into a similar situation with worse quarterback play- Yeah... a worse situation in New York as of right now. 18:43 But I did find it interesting that a scout that I spoke to about this very generally said, as far as the Eagles perspective goes, that this is the kind of trade that would help them get younger- Mm-hmm... 18:54 and keep their Super Bowl window open, which I found- Yeah... interesting because it's not often that you talk about subtracting a player of A.J. Brown's caliber being the kind of piece- Yeah... 19:03 that can make you better, but I guess it comes down to what kind of draft capital are you getting? 19:08 Because based on Howie Roseman's recent track record in the draft, you, you might be able to get some real pieces to keep this thing going for three or four more years. 19:16 Right, and one of the equations for all this is Howie's ability to somehow come u- somehow come up with a trade where it's like, oh my God, we got all of that for him? 19:25 Uh, not because Brown's a bad player, but because he has this giant salary that you're, you're, you're trying to maneuver around, you know? 19:31 And you also have a little bit of a reputation at this point, and he's a veteran. And, like, you know, we can sit here and say, "Well, two first-round picks." You're not going to get two first-round picks for A.J. 19:39 Brown under these circumstances, but Howie could come away with a lot of capital because he did for Carson Wentz, and he's done it in the past. So, like, that's one of the things we bank into the equation. 19:50 Now, the Eagles can get better by trading A.J. Brown 'cause they're gonna get stuff back, and yes, recent Roseman has been a, a very sharp drafter, and then you throw that into the equation. 19:59 I can see the Eagles doing it because they're motivated to get it done, and Brown is motivated to get it done. I'm just wondering how it turns out. 20:06 Like, like I said, of the teams you said, the Patriots might make the most sense, and who'd you say first in that? The Bron- Uh, the Broncos. Denver Broncos. 20:13 The Broncos make the most sense 'cause you can get the phone with them. They can play ball. They could give you the 30th pick. 20:19 That's not a very, you know, that's not much of a draft pick, et cetera, and they can say, "Okay, deal's done. We can afford to bring this guy in. Now we've got that downfield component for our offense." 20:29 Out in, in Indianapolis today, Raiders general manager John Spytek sounded a lot less- Yeah... done with Maxx Crosby- Yes... and Maxx Crosby is done with the Raiders. 20:38 [laughs] Now, that could just be juicing the market, but, but to me, it's a little bit different than Andrew Berry last year basically saying that, you know, Myles Garrett is going to be a Brown for life. 20:48 It seems like- Yeah... there might be s- there might be a little bit of, like, sunlight creaking through the, the crack in the door with Maxx Crosby and, and the Raiders there. 20:56 If you're Roseman, does it behoove you to pick up the phone and say, "Hey, man, I'll give you A.J. Brown. You give me a number one in 2027"? Wait, if Brown for Crosby- And, and Maxx Crosby. 21:09 For Brown for Crosby and a 2027 number one. Oh, you're not gonna get a one back in the Brown-Crosby deal. I, I like... 21:16 I mean, you can do something, make the picks right, 'cause I like the idea that both teams just eat, like, a F ton of money, but then as it cancels out. 21:25 Like, oh, we're just paying this guy, but you're paying this guy, and it, and it, like, balances out. It makes some kind of sense. [laughs] It's, it's the Dead Cap Café. You know, 21:35 the, the Dead Cap Café- [laughs] Dead Cap Café. Mid- m- midnight at the, midnight at the Dead Cap Café. Um, Crosby is such a diva. Yes. He is such a diva. 21:41 He is, he is a wide receiver in, uh, in, drag as an edge rusher, and, like, he loves this. 21:48 And I think that, like, Spytek and Brady are looking at this and think, "If we lay low for a while," and he looks at his $30 million contract, and he gets the att- here's the attention you ordered. 21:58 In the off-season every year, Maxx Crosby, here's the attention you ordered. He'll just come wandering back in for OTAs. I have a funny feeling they're running the clock on him. 22:06 Uh, but, but, but like you said, like, you, you start making Crosby trades, and they're all cuckoo bananas trades, 'cause how do you move this guy? Right. Yeah, you know? 22:17 Like, like three number ones would- And he's not one of those, and he's not one of those two first-round pick type of edge rushers like Micah Parsons was. It's just not... 22:24 I- it's a different, it's a different market- Yeah... a different asking price. Right, and a different guy. 22:28 He's a little older, too, than Micah, where it's like two first-round picks, we're getting a 26-year-old or whatever Micah was last year. 22:34 And you are getting a guy who will let the media know what he thinks about everything, almost like an Aaron Rodgers, like, personality at edge rusher. 22:42 Make sure that his displeasure about the coaching staff or about the direction of the team, et cetera, he will make sure that that's known out there, and you're gonna have to kinda deal with that. 22:51 The Raiders are used to it. Another team might look at that and say, "Well, that's, that's worse than having A.J. 22:56 Brown reading a book on the sidelines," because this guy kinda really, like, leans into it and really talks about it and really makes it his business to make it a problem for everybody. 23:05 And speaking of Aaron Rodgers, Omar Khan- Oh, God... general manager of the Steelers, steps to the podium and basically has a Motel 6 commercial, uh, that the, the door is open for Aaron Rodgers to come back, unquote. 23:16 Um, look, w- you and I are very similar in terms of how we view Aaron Rodgers, both the person and what we see on the field as the quarterback and the football player. 23:25 How is it that everyone, everyone you speak to, analysts, people inside the league in other buildings, scouts, agents, how is it that everyone can look at this Pittsburgh Steelers franchise right now- [laughs]... 23:39 and see that they need a rebuild? 23:41 A, they are in desperate need of tearing it down and rebuilding, but they're so far in denial that they just won't do it, that they won't trade a Patrick Queen, that they won't w- entertain trading a T.J. 23:54 Watt, that they won't un- entertain tearing it down to the studs and getting draft capital and moving up to get a quarterback. 24:01 Because if you're entertaining bringing Aaron Rodgers back off of that year, off of that- Yeah... playoff loss the way that- Yep... 24:07 it ended, th- th- this is basically the result of ignoring the quarterback position for a decade. Yep. And you're stuck with the devil you know versus the devil you don't at a very mediocre or worse quarterback market. 24:20 How does this happen?The Steelers need a guidance counselor. 24:25 They're like, they're like eighth graders who just broke up for the first time with, like, with like, a, a boyfriend or girlfriend, and now are like sitting there by the phone, "I'll do anything to get you back." 24:36 It's ugly. It's, it's not the devil you know, 'cause he's not there. You don't even ha- it's not even like the devil and how you know him, but he's not here. He's out there being the devil right now. Yeah. 24:46 And when they ask like, "Well, what's the timetable?" Look, Omar Khan's like, "No timetable. 24:50 We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna sit here and look out the window like we're w- like we're waiting for the ship to come in." Uh, a- and, and it's, it's, it's pathetic. It's ridiculous. 25:00 And, and in the meantime, you're gonna draft, you know, Dante Moore in the second round or something- Right... 25:04 and be, be hamstrung by Aaron Rodgers holding you hostage for the entire off-season, just like you drafted Will Howard in the fourth or fifth round last year- Yeah... 25:12 because you were being hamstrung and held hostage by Aaron Rodgers. Right. They continue to, to do this. 25:17 They continue to find themselves in this situation because they seem like they're intent on building a defense that's just dominant enough to feel you- make you feel just nostalgic enough- Yeah... 25:28 about the Terrible Towels- [laughs] Yeah... 25:30 and what they were in the '90s and in the '70s, but they, they're falling further and further from relevancy and contending for Super Bowls because they just won't acknowledge the inconvenient truth that they need to get younger and develop a quarterback. 25:41 They refuse to do it. Yeah, yeah, it's like, uh, they beat the Browns because T.J. Watt strips Shadur at the end, and they win b- like 16 to 13 on the 54-yard field goal, and they count on those yinzers. 25:53 They're like, "That's Steelers football, baby." Yeah, that's it. It's like [laughs] you're about to get destroyed in the playoffs again. This is not Steelers football. 26:00 This is some weird nostalgia, uh, uh, uh, you know, cosplay of the 1978 team. 26:06 The full quote here, I don't have the full quote, but um, when Khan was asked about Rodgers's timetable, he said, "There's no timetable," but, quote, "All I'll tell you guys is I don't foresee this going like it did last year when Rodgers signed on J- on June 6th." 26:21 June 6th, at the beginning of mini camp. The day before. If you don't, you don't foresee that, well, what are you basing that on? What are you basing that on? H- do you have anything you can hold over him? 26:33 Do you have any sort of conversation with him that's made sense? 'Cause clearly you could be talking to him right now. You could re-sign him at any time. Why don't you foresee that? 26:42 It sounds like you're just, on your end, negotiating with yourself, making up the things in your own mind, like wishful thinking, "Oh, he probably likes it here. He probably wants to come back. 26:50 He's probably not just gonna F around for the entire off-season and come in when he feels like coming in." Based on what? 26:56 History tells us he did not come, show up to practice for the Packers until it was absolutely required to. He has not said a word about this. You're out there, you're the sound of one hand clapping. 27:10 You're, you're the one sending text message after text message to a phone and getting ghosted. Come on, Steelers. Come on. 27:17 George McKelvy checks in in the comment section, "It ain't gonna happen with the Steelers until they have a bad season," unquote, speaking of the rebuild. Yeah. Well, you know what? 27:25 Mike McCarthy is the head coach, and either Will Howard or Dante Moore or, uh, whatever's left of Aaron Rodgers, th- th- this might be the bad season loading. Th- th- this might be- Yes... 27:34 the perfect storm of, of mediocrity or worse that kind of thrusts them into that rebuild. 27:40 But, uh, f- for those watching who aren't yet subscribed to Between the Hash Marks on Substack, I have a, uh, bit of a combine notebook from the snowstorm coming out- Yes... tomorrow morning. 27:49 Y- you're not gonna wanna miss the quotes from a rival executive, uh, did not hold back- Ooh... on what he thinks of the Steelers a- and how Mike Tomlin left that situation. I'll just leave it at that. That's neat. 28:01 That's interesting. I'm gonna be doing a notebook as well tomorrow for subscribers. 28:04 I compare, uh, Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers to, uh, some characters from a very recent still-in-theaters movie, and I'll just tease it that way and let people f- try and throw a guess out there what movie characters I'm comparing the Steelers and Aaron Rodgers to. 28:19 Um, but like we mentioned Malik Willis earlier, and uh, he can't play for 12 teams next year. That's, that we know for sure. But right- [laughs] Well, Nick Kelly checks in. Perfect segue here. 28:29 More likely to wind up on the Steelers, Malik Willis or Kirk Cousins? Cousins. But, but, uh, yeah, well, here's the thing. 28:36 Kirk Cousins' agent, um, belongs in the Sports Business Hall of Fame for the amount of money that he's been able to secure through Kirk Cousins' career. Mm-hmm. 28:44 Do you give a bit of a discount to go to Pittsburgh and throw to DK Metcalf and Pat Freiermuth and a great defense you're playing behind to put, put, put a Steeler logo on one side of your helmet? Mm-hmm. 28:53 It seems like Cousins might be the better fit there than, than Malik. Right. 28:57 He's probably looking at that, 'cause he's probably looking at a playoff run and a offensive line that just protected Rodgers so they can protect him, and he's not going to run off to the, um, to, to the Jets. 29:07 Also out there in the woods, uh, I didn't put this on the list. Uh, Derek Carr's out there in the woods. Yeah. He is now, uh, I, I think he's now a fully free agent. 29:16 I don't think the Saints hel- hold his rights anymore, and he said, "You know, I'll come back if there's a team that I can be o- on a competitor." 29:23 The, the Steelers keep m- m- matching that line, like, "Well, I'll come back for a competitor." I'd rather have Derek Carr than Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, I think so too. Right. I think so too. 29:33 Uh, based on what you saw from Aaron Rodgers, especially down the stretch, especially in that playoff loss, I, I just can't look at that, that guy and say that I can rely on him for a 17-game season. 29:43 I think that that was the apex of what you're going to get- Mm-hmm... at this point in Aaron Rodgers' career. 29:47 And I just look around at the quarterback market, you know, th- th- there's a lot of teams, probably 10 teams gonna be like poking around- Mm-hmm... 29:55 looking for quarterbacks, and it just seems to me like if you're the Steelers, you have to be able to do better, right? Yes. 30:01 You have to be able to do better, and you're out there competing with these teams like the Cardinals and the Dolphins, who are at the same time trying to shop Kyler Murray and trying to shop Tua Tagovailoa, and you should be able to talk about things like, "Hey, maybe we're the team that trades for Mac Jones." 30:16 I don't love that idea, but it's not a terrible idea. Maybe we should be the most aggressive Malik Willis team, because when all the offers come in, he might see the same things everyone else does. 30:26 He put that Steelers logo out there, go with the defense. You can win a bunch of games 16 to 13, uh, et cetera. I don't... But the Steelers aren't going that route. They're saying, 30:36 they are saying the door is open and there's no timetable.So that means- We got a bust out name If the- I got a bust out name for you. Go ahead. Zach Wilson. Okay. Why? Why? Why? It's a name- Why not?... 30:52 that keeps coming up as somebody [laughs] who has played a lot of football, that there's a, a baseline knowledge of what he is. You're banking on the potential of him being that next Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold type 31:06 r- renaissance, rejuvenated, young, younger than Aaron Rodgers, cheaper. He got, he got, he got leapfrogged by Quinn Ewers on the depth chart of the Miami Dolphins. 31:20 Like, Mike McDaniel's job is on the line, and he said, "I can't take Tua anymore. Zach Wilson or Quinn Ewers." And he says, "Throw Ewers out there and run every swing pass that has ever been created by humanity." 31:33 Um, uh, h- here's, here's the breakout name that has been buzzing for the last two days, Tyson Bagent. So both Ryan Poles... Now y- you know how it is when you try to create a market. 31:48 When the team and the agent work together as a full court press, and they whisper to Albert Breer that this is the next guy, and he runs out there, like with his scoop and everything. Tyson Bagent's the guy. 31:58 Ryan Poles was like, "Hey, yeah, we've been getting calls about Tyson Bagent." We knew this was gonna happen. We knew this was happening this off-season, that Tyson Bagent was gonna be a guy teams will be interested in. 32:08 Right. [laughs] I said that today. Right. And B- and Ben Johnson's like, "I think he's one of the 32 best in the league, absolutely." 32:14 And they're trying to drum up business for a guy they don't need anymore, obviously, 'cause Caleb Williams is no longer in any sort of limbo. 32:21 And they're like, "Yeah, maybe we get a third-round pick for him, and maybe we get him 13 million a year," or whatever you get for Tyson Bagent. Tyson Bagent, I believe, has thrown six passes in the last two years. 32:31 Tyson Bagent's entire portfolio as a starting quarterback was he replaced Justin Fields, he won one game against the Raiders, then he started throwing interceptions, like, like wackadoodle interceptions. 32:44 But because he won the one game and because he was the white guy on the bench, he sort of became, like, the sensation for a couple weeks. That was 2023, folks. That was three years ago. So we're still trying to do this. 32:56 The thing is, I could see it happening, not the Steelers, but I could see some other team hearing this, Atlanta, 'cause Ella- Arizona. Bring him in as the competitor. Oh, he's gonna compete for the job. 33:09 You know, oh, he's gonna be the bridge quarterback. Yeah, Atlanta could do it, the Jets could do it. Any team that's likely to be like, "Wait, someone else is..." It, it's like a used car salesman. 33:17 "Someone else was just looking at that car yesterday. Someone called us about Tyson Bagent just a minute ago. You don't wanna miss out, Matt Ryan, new general manager. You do not wanna miss out on this." 33:29 I could see it, and I could see some general manager overpaying because they don't wanna sign, uh, Zach Wilson, or they don't want to- Yeah... uh, look at an Anthony Richardson and think that he's- [laughs]... 33:39 anything more than what he showed in Indianapolis where- Right... they're scared off by the Tua Tagovailoa whispers that you and I have... 33:45 Or not Tua Tagovailoa, the, the Kyler Murray whispers that you and I have both heard over the last- Yeah... two years. Like- Yeah... 33:50 it just seems like Tyson Bagent could be one of those guys that some general manager's gonna say, "You know what? For a fourth-round pick on a short-term deal, on a cheap deal, let's see what happens." Yeah. 34:00 "And if it doesn't work out, we'll just draft a guy next year." Right. Right, and by the way, the Falcons, Ian Cunningham's from the Bears, so he would probably know more about what's going on there. 34:08 I'd take Richardson, frankly. Yeah. 34:10 Like, give, give, give me Richardson and let me, like, mess around under the hood of this guy before I went out there and said, "Oh, the, the seventh-round pick who had, like, a half a good game three years ago, let's take a look at that," please. 34:22 Absolutely, and, and the... where we started this conversation was with Malik Willis, who I think is going to be- Yeah... the most coveted quarterback on the market. 34:29 I think that he's going to have the most teams beating down his door, burning down his- Mm-hmm... agent's phone line. A- and I just look at this and it's like the Jets have all the resources, they have the money. Yeah. 34:39 Go do it, because you don't know what the quarterback class is going to look like next year. Everybody thought this year was gonna be great, and you have the two first-round picks this year. 34:46 You have the three first-round picks next year. But why risk it? I- if Willis is sitting there and you can kind of jumpstart the rebuild... 34:52 And here's the other angle, you work for an, a- an owner who's as impatient as Woody Johnson is. If you're Darren Moogey, if you're Aaron Glenn- Yeah... 35:01 do you really wanna kick that can down the road one more year- Oh y-... with, with, with that owner, work- working for that guy? Uh, y- you were capped. Uh, Glenn was capped so he could be fired. 35:09 I mean, that, that's- Yeah... the way Johnson thinks. He, like, like, "I, I get to fire this guy in October," that's, that's almost the mentality here. Yeah, you want to do something. 35:17 You can't just goof off for the next couple of years. If you do Malik Willis, first of all, Willis will know he's going to the Jets, and him and his representation will get the maximum dollar value out of that. Yep. 35:27 Do- Probably pay a Jets tax 'cause you're so far away. You probably have to pay a little bit more to bring- Yeah... Malik Willis in. Right, right, uh, but it's, it is probably your best option. 35:36 It's so much better than Ty Simpson, for example, at this point. If they do it, they actually have a pretty good offensive line there. 35:42 You wouldn't know it, but the Jets have a pretty good offensive line, a couple of young players there. Make sure they back up that investment by bringing in another receiver, maybe bringing in a tight end. 35:52 Um, a- and, and make sure that if they do this, it's not just, "We, we got a guy with 100 pass attempts, and now mission accomplished," you know. Like, like we're excited about Malik Willis. 36:03 We know Malik Willis had a couple of spot starts, and then he, like, had a game against the Ravens where it was good until the second half, and it fell apart, and there wasn't that many... uh, got hurt in the game. 36:12 If the Jets are doing this, it's gonna be expensive. It should be in a coordinated effort to do something right away. Absolutely. Have that Patriots type of off-season where you throw the money- Yeah... 36:21 at the veterans at positions of need. You maximize your draft picks. But outside of New York, where, where do you think are some ideal fits? 36:27 I mean, obviously there's the Jeff Hafley connection from being the defensive coordinator in Green Bay with the Dolphins, but their salary cap situation is a mess, even more- Yeah... 36:36 before you figure out what to do with Tua Tagovailoa. Um, but, but I, I loved your breakdown in the column on Monday of those 100 star, or 100 pass attempts from- Yeah... 36:46 Malik Willis, how he would be the best option of the entire off-season because of what this draft class is. 36:53 Really loved your breakdown there, but if you were playing matchmaker, team for quarterback, wh- where does Malik Willis land for you?Uh, if, if I were playing matchmaker to actually help both sides, it would be the Steelers, but the Steelers are saying that they're just gonna sit around and wait. 37:07 Um, the Jets, if I'm trying to maximize Willis's money, which is certainly a good thing there. Uh, but like everyone along the way, the Cardinals have 37:18 the cap space and the availability, and then they can trade Murray for just whatever. Uh, a- and so I, I, I don't know what that looks like, frankly. Again, there's a LaFleur there, right? Yes. In Arizona, right? 37:29 So that- In the back, yeah. Right. So, so there, there, there's, there's a fit there. Those are fine. You're right, I have no idea how the Dolphins are proceeding. 37:36 It doesn't sound like the Dolphins know how the Dolphins are proceeding right now, because the cap situation is not good. Tua eats up a huge chunk of cap. 37:43 The market for him is, he's gonna, he's going to be a bridge quarterback. He's not going... No one's gonna look at him and say, "He's our answer." 37:51 They're gonna look at him and say, "He's the veteran to bring in," 'cause we're the Raiders and we're bringing in Mendoza or somebody like that, and the value of that is really, really low. 37:59 I don't know how the Dolphins could fit Ma- uh, uh, Malik Willis under the cap. If he is, and I think the 30 million is an agent number, 'cause I guess what Palasaro said- I do too... 38:08 it's an agent number, uh, it would probably work out to, like, 20 million, and even there, I don't know how the Dolphins afford that. Right. 38:16 And, and you're looking at the Dolphins, um, spoiler alert, tomorrow afternoon, the off-season preview series continues with the Miami Dolphins, so I did some legwork- Uh... on this today. 38:24 Cap space, 3.18 million, uh, as of now. Yes. Mike, they haven't even decided whether they're going to designate Bradley Chubb as a post-June 1 release or, or a regular release. Yeah. 38:35 Which doesn't make sense to me, because if you make him a post-June 1 release, Bradley Chubb frees up $23 million in cap space. Yeah. It's only seven if you just say, "Hey, we're releasing him in March," right? 38:46 Uh, but you can- Right... make the designation, you don't have to wait. Even if you trade Tua Tagovailoa, um, after June 1- Mm-hmm... 38:54 right, so that's after the draft, that's after free agency, that's after a likely Kyler Murray trade, that's after Aaron Rodgers comes back from his latest ayahuasca retreat. 39:03 If you trade him after June 1, yes, you're freeing up $42.8 million, but you're still- Yeah... eating 13.4 million at the Dead Money Cafe. Right. 39:12 And you trade him before June 1, it's $11 million that you're freeing up with, uh- Mm-hmm... $45.2 million in dead money, and you can't designate a trade the way you can designate a release, so you'd have to wait. Yeah. 39:26 So there's no real winners here for- No... for this Dolphins and Tua situation. No, and you can't just cut him, 'cause you just, you just cut him- Well... 39:33 60-some million, you, his cap space increases, uh, over the course of the next two years, 'cause you have to eat all this going- 99 million in dead money. 99 million in dead- Over two years... this year. Over two years. 39:43 That's $32 million that you have to pay against the cap this year. Yeah, and I'm, I'm looking at, like, Bradley Chubb. However you cut him, you save a little bit. You probably have to cut Austin Jackson. 39:52 What they're probably deciding is if they're going to spend a year dead for cap purposes. Right. 39:58 Like, if this comes to the point where it's like we're just, there's just zero competitive ability because of how we had to manage these things. 40:06 So as, you know, Chubb's a good player, Jackson's always hurt, but, like, you, you lose some other guys there, and we had to do something horrendous with Tua. There's no way you can put Malik Willis into that equation. 40:15 No. [laughs] No. No, if you're doing that, it's Quinn Ewers and Parson Beck or some goopy combination like that, which I think is just two Quinn Ewerses, if you think about it. Um, uh, [laughs] so, so 40:30 that, that's the Dolphins. There's also the Browns running around, and the Browns are saying, "Well, we'll, you know, we, we might, uh..." 40:36 Uh, uh, Andrew Berry says something like, "I wouldn't rule out the possibility of getting a quarterback." They, they can't afford to bring him in. They're show- No... they're showing $3 million in paper cap space. 40:45 They have zero offensive linemen under contract right now. Yeah. Yeah, not great. Suboptimal. Yeah. Suboptimal. Zero offen- well, actually, like, third stringers. 40:52 They've got, like, DeJuan Jones I think is under contract. The guys that you might be able to remember who were good, who are Browns offensive linemen, Joel Bitonio, and, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, the kid with the name. 41:02 Uh, wow. W- Wyatt Earp? Wyatt To- Wyatt Teller. Wyatt Teller. Wyatt Teller. Yeah, I think they're moving on from him. I think that he's not gonna, he, he's not gonna be there no more, so you don't- He's-... 41:14 don't worry about Evan Cleveland. No, no, he's gone, he's gone. He's a, he's a free agent. He'll probably get a, a good salary. Wyatt Teller's a ri- a real person, right? Yeah. [laughs] Yes, he is. Yes. I- A good player. 41:23 Good ballplayer. Good, good. I'm, I keep thinking that that's, like, some famous actor's son or something. My brain is glitching right now. That's not Kurt Russell's son. Okay, we're fine. [laughs] Don't... 41:32 Something's ha- something bad is happening right here, right now. Okay. [sighs] We good? You okay over there? [laughs] I'm good. I'm good. 41:40 But, uh, uh, but other than the quarterbacks, uh, the, the one market that I think is gonna really heat up is, is pass rusher. It, it's a bad year to need a quarterback. It's a really great year to need a pass rusher. 41:52 Mm-hmm. It's an even better year to be a free agent pass rusher. I think you touched on this in the column as well. Lot of s- of, of rock solid free agents, uh, at that position, a- and they're gonna get cashed up. 42:05 [laughs] Hendrickson? Joey Bera? I think $38 million i- in the range of a, a deal for 32 to 38 for, for Hendrickson could be the, uh- Right... the deal that sets the market. Absolutely. 42:18 I'm looking at, like, the secondary guys here down the road, like AJ Epenesa, he's kind of a role player. He's a guy, come and help with that at a lower cost. Kwity Paye is actually a pretty good d- player. 42:28 Adafe Oweh, who was kinda, and, like, didn't do a lot with the Ravens and suddenly blew up when he got to the Chargers. The Chargers. The Chargers might keep him, but maybe not. Boye Mafe is down on this list of guys. 42:39 Yeah, you bring him in as a rotation player, and that's below the famous guys, with not just Hendrickson, but, like, Dante Fowler. Kleell Mack. Yeah. 42:47 Kleell Mack, who's older, and he's sort of, but, like, he, you bring him in and you're the Lions. You bring him in and you're, like, one of these contenders, and he's just screaming off the side. 42:54 That, like, that's a huge help. 42:56 Also, it's a good year for edges in the draft, and it's not a good year for many things in the draft, but the draft is top-heavy with really good e- edges, and then you go down the line a little bit, and it's like, "Oh, yeah, he's another guy." 43:07 You bring him into the rotation, bring these guys in in waves, you're gonna have a problem.And from what I hear, the Eagles are close to getting a deal done with Jalen Phillips- Okay... 43:14 that that's another big name edge rusher. Mm-hmm. But it looks like, from what I'm hearing, uh, the Eagles want him back. Phillips wants to get ba- uh, be back- Mm-hmm... 43:22 in Philadelphia, so we'll see if a deal gets done there, uh, in the next- Good... couple of days or certainly before free agency starts. 43:28 But that's just another name, and you start to think about, like, what happens at the top with Jalen Phillips and Hendrickson and Khalil Mack, who could be the Von Miller, uh, mercenary type- Yes... 43:37 as he was for the Broncos and Buffalo Bills for that year there. And then you trickle it down to the Boye Mafe's and the Arnold Ebiketes- Yeah... and the Adafe Oweys. These guys are gonna cash in because- Right... 43:47 it's such a vital position in today's NFL and from a roster building standpoint. And there are so many teams that are gonna look at that and say, "You know what? Hey, the Lions are in that market." 43:57 The Eagles might or might not be in that market regardless of what they do with Jalen Phillips. The 49ers need to get better. Yeah. There are a lot of teams that are going to be beating down the door for edge rush help. 44:07 It's a good year to go shopping. Good year to go shopping. Commanders have money, and they don't really have- Yeah... something good at the edge. Bengals can't pay Hendrickson 'cause that ship sailed. 44:15 They gotta bring in somebody else, and they've got enough money for somebody at, of that second tier. 44:20 Yeah, you can go up and down the list, and even teams that say like, "Oh, they don't seem to have a lot, a lot of money right now," once they restructure contracts and they go shopping, that's gonna be a position that, whether again, through the draft or through free agency, they're going to want to invest. 44:35 Absolutely. So, um, the one, the game I wanted to play here is, uh, I, I really loved in the column this week how you broke down how good free agency is. Yeah. 44:44 How it's just a really strong free agency class, and there's always that caveat of what it looks like on February 24th- Right... might be different than what it looks on March 11th when- Yeah... 44:55 teams can use the, the franchise tag by then. Teams can lock up their impending free agents to long-term deals to make sure they don't reach the market. 45:03 But on paper today, it looks like a really great free agency class, and, and I loved the column. Um, who's a team or two for you do you think could orchestrate that quick turnaround based on a free agency spending spree? 45:15 I'm gonna switch it around, and you go first with your team. Okay. I'm gonna go Cincinnati Bengals. All right. And, uh, spoiler alert, they're the team, the off-season preview that's up on the site right now- Okay... 45:25 I just look at the confluence of, of cap space. 45:28 Um, when you look at what they have to spend, something like $53.4 million in cap space, you look at the fact that you have Joe Burrow, you have Ja'Marr Chase, you have Tee Higgins. 45:38 The offensive line wasn't the nuclear wasteland at the end of the year- Mm-hmm... that it was the year before. Go, go get yourself a top edge rusher. Go get yourself an L'Jaey Taylor at corner. 45:49 Um, go get yourself a linebacker, spend some of that cap space, and then maybe run back in the NFL draft and take the best safety who's on the board. Right. 45:57 Get three or four players, and why can't you be this year's Patriots in a division where you have a new head coach in Baltimore? The Steelers, we've already touched on the kind of mess that they are. Mm-hmm. 46:08 Um, why, why can't they be the team that rises back to the top in that division? And with Joe Burrow, you always got a chance. That's it, and that's it. 46:16 Where, uh, one, one of the reasons I wanted you to start is because most of the teams that have a lot of cap space, there's a surprising number of really good teams down there with cap space, like the Seahawks, like the Rams, so they can't really bounce back. 46:28 It's like, "We're gonna get better," and then there's, you know, the Raiders. So you have the Bengals sitting there, it's like, "Yeah, we got quarterback, we've got an offense, we need a defense. 46:36 We can spend money and draft picks." They don't like spending money, but they can spend draft picks. Get the defense to 20th in the league, have a good season, a healthy season from Burrow, and that's a 10 or 11 team. 46:47 A 10 or 11 win team, that makes perfect sense. So picking a team that isn't bouncing back necessarily, gonna go with the Los Angeles Chargers. Ooh. Always a risky bet- Ooh... 46:58 because they're the Chargers, and of course they did what they always do, which is make the playoffs and then keel over. Um, obviously you get Slater back, you get Alt back. 47:06 Now, the caveat here is there is some worry about Slater coming back from the patella, and there's actually talk, a little bit of a rumor out there, it's like maybe we gotta move him inside to center to preserve him. 47:16 He's not gonna have that elite thing anymore. You still have a great offensive lineman there, a great Alt, may- maybe moves to left, et cetera. 47:23 Automatically, by attrition or whatever, by getting healthy, they get better. They're already a playoff team. They're sitting with 81 million. I thought you were gonna mention them with the A.J. Brown. 47:35 That'd be a terrific fit too. Yeah, good source. I mean, you have Omarion Hampton at your running back to kind of ground and pound- Yep... and play hardball ball. You, you- Yep... 47:43 you look at the fact that they desperately need a wide receiver. You pair him with Justin Herbert. Yeah. 47:49 Herbert just putting the ball in his hands over and over and over again, not worrying about whether he's open or not. He brings in more of those passes. He's excited to be there. 47:57 He's got Harbaugh chirping in his ear to make sure he stays with the program, whatever he needs to hear along the way. And if it's not him, then maybe it's Rasheed Shaheed who you talk to. 48:07 Or- Could be Rasheed Shaheed, could be the speed, a speed merchant like that. Right. Right, and or, you know, they get somebody at tight end who's, like, more of an impact tight end, et cetera. 48:15 So they can get better by getting healthier. Defense, they're probably gonna lose Mack. Mack's, again, an older guy, so if they bring him in it'll be, like, one year and l- and, like, motivational tactics, whatever. 48:25 That's a team that could put together a resume that can... Yeah, they're the Chargers, but look like the team that, that's going to be among the Super Bowl contenders. 48:35 A- and it's an arms race in that division because you, you- Mm-hmm... 48:37 now have the Denver Broncos who are loading up with a young quarterback still under rookie contract, probably going to be aggressive with $28.6 million in cap space at the start of the off-season. 48:48 Um, the Chiefs are the Chiefs, and whenever Patrick- Yeah... Mahomes gets healthy. Let's say you drop in a Breece Hall in free agency or a Jeremiah Love with the ninth pick in the draft. 48:58 Now all of a sudden you have a balanced offense, and you're starting to cook with gas a little bit. Yeah. And then of course, um, you know, you look at the Chargers. 49:05 Nick Kelly checks in in the comments, "What about Mike Evans and the Chargers?" And to that I say- That's a good one... why not both? Why not- Yeah... sign Mike Evans in free agency and trade for A.J. Brown? 49:14 You have s- uh, $78.5 million in cap space.You get both wide receivers, you have two now, and you have a, a top five or 10 quarterback in the league. You have a ground and pound running game. You have a decent defense. 49:27 And yeah, I, I, I'm in. Mike, Mike Evans and A.J. Brown to the Chargers, why the hell not? 49:31 [laughs] The one thing about Mike Evans that I worry about is the Chargers have Keenan Allen still, or I think he's a free agent right now, and they brought back Mike Williams. 49:39 They have a habit of bringing the 30-something guy in, and so I don't know about that. Plus, uh, uh, Jason Light was saying what he always says, "I want to bring all of my guys back," and he often doesn't. 49:50 And he usually does. He usually does it, yeah. Remember, it's tax-free in Florida, folks, uh, [laughs] so some of these guys are, are inclined to stick around. It's not a terrible move, though, to bring Mike Evans there. 50:00 That's another guy who's sitting around potentially in free agent that if he doesn't go there, maybe he becomes a security belt blanket for a, um, Malik Willis in New York or something like that. 50:11 Mike, I know you got a flight to catch tomorrow out to Indianapolis. Yes. 50:15 Uh, well, let, let's hear the content plan, and of course, if you're out there, this is the perfect time to jump in and subscribe to the Two Deep Zone. 50:22 It, it's the best brand of football coverage you're gonna find around. You get the blend of the storytelling, the deep-dive analytics, the, the dad jokes, the superhero comparisons of the prospects coming in. 50:32 Uh, the, you get the fun Mike Scotch habit, uh, on the road- Please... at, at Prime 47. Great time to subscribe to the Two Deep Zone. What's the, what's the content plan out there in Indy? 50:41 'Cause I'm gonna be sitting here trying to stay warm, uh, a- and looking forward to the coverage. 50:46 The content plan is, well, tomorrow when I'm on that plane, there will be a coach BS to English translator from some of the quotes that made the rounds and some of the things we talked about here and some other, uh, conversations that, uh, these coaches and general managers had today. 51:00 You'll find that tomorrow. 51:01 After that, you're gonna f- be able to find me on the socials, uh, tweeting and skeeting, well, actually skeeting, I don't do, uh, Twitter anymore, about the things going on when we're interviewing defensive backs and tight ends, and quarterbacks on Friday. 51:14 I'll be there for all that excitement. It all leads up to the Forty Awards on Monday. Forty. Forget the Academy Awards. Forget the Oscars. 51:21 The Forty Awards, I should be there, uh, long enough to be able to give the best beard award, the best jewelry award, the best quote award. 51:29 Oh, and yes, by the way, we'll be talking about who made themselves some money by, you know, running a 3.9 forty or whatever it's that they're up to these days. 51:36 So combine coverage, but I'm, uh, y- most of it on Two Deep Zone you're gonna find next Monday. What do you have coming up? Th- th- the Forty Awards is worth, is worth the price of a subscription in its own right. 51:46 Great stuff. Go, go do that today. 51:47 [laughs] Um, to- tomorrow morning, we're gonna have the, uh, my notebook, kind of a virtual notebook of kinda taking what we heard today and advancing the story by reaching out to agents of players in that free agency market that maybe a general manager was talking about. 52:03 We'll have an update on the pass rush market. We'll have an update on- Mm... uh, the Max Crosby situation, and then in the afternoon tomorrow, the Dolphins preview drops. 52:12 You can subscribe to Between the Hash Marks on Substack, but make sure you subscribe to the Two Deep Zone as well. Um, so follow Mike on Twitter, uh, Mike Tanier on Blue Sky. Check out all the hijinks from Indianapolis. 52:24 You can follow me on Threads @MattLombardoNFL, @MattLombardo on Blue Sky. Subscribe to the Apple Podcast or to the Between the Hash Marks podcast. 52:32 And Mike, while you're out there, please have a Sun King stout for me or get yourself a nice double of, of, uh, top-shelf scotch at Prime late at night. 52:40 Either way, I need to live vicariously through you just a little bit- [laughs]... over the next couple days. I will do that. I will, I will spoil my liver for both of us.
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