Transcript 0:00 We are live. How you doing, my friend? I'm doing great. Something just occurred to me. How old are you? Uh, I'm 39. Knock- Okay... knocking on the doorstep of 40. 0:09 So you are on the borderline of really rickety backup quarterback age. You're old, not Flacco old, but old for a really rickety backup quarterback. I, I, I'm in that, like, Andy Dalton, Carson Wentz bracket of- Yeah... 0:25 of, of age. Fine. I, I can s- I can still sling it. 0:28 You know, my daughter w- had a cheerleading game the other, the other night, and these kids were throwing the ball back and forth across, uh, uh, the sidelines, and it rolled up to my foot, and I looked at the one dude, he wanted the ball. 0:38 I said- Mm-hmm... "No, man, where's your boy?" And he pointed down to where he was. And, and I rifled the spiral, had to be 30-ish yards downfield, 35, on a dime. 0:48 And I'm like, "Ah, this old man can, can still do it a little bit." So, so it didn't pop out like it would from Andy Dalton, for example. It wouldn't pop up in the air. You're in that K- you're in the Case Keenum area. 0:59 You're a Case Keenum. Like, we wouldn't necessarily start you, uh, but, but, like, to be the mentor on the, on, on the bench, that's, that's good g- 'cause the Vikings may need you. The Vikings may need me. 1:11 And Andy Dalton, as I said on social media on Sunday, he was, like, the loosest slot machine that you'd find in an old- [laughs]... Vegas casino off the Strip. Just, uh, the, the, the ball was just- Yeah... 1:19 flying out of his hands- Right... in the wrong direction. We'll get into all that and a whole lot more. We have a big show on tap with the deadline approaching. But before we do, a little bit of housekeeping for you. 1:27 If you enjoy Mike's personality, the ability to blend seamlessly the best superhero movie analogies with deep-dive analytics into the biggest storylines across the NFL with t- with tape dives. 1:41 The, the Caleb Williams piece was terrific last week. Yes. Subscribe to the Two Deep Zone on Substack. You can read Mike tenure there. Uh, subscribe to the Between the Hash Marks podcast on Apple Podcasts. 1:51 Leave us a five-star review and rating. We'll read those reviews on the show live here to you. They really do help grow the show. 1:59 And if you enjoy my reporting and my analysis and my writing, subscribe to Between the Hash Marks on Substack as well. 2:06 Uh, Mike, let's just dive right into it here because just before we went on the air, uh, Adam Schefter reports, quote, "The Vikings are looking to add a veteran quarterback to the roster after Carson Wentz's season-ending injury. 2:17 They only have J.J. McCarthy and rookie Max Brosnan on their active roster." Um, interesting. Yeah. 2:25 Uh, the, the Spidey sense is tingling a bit here on a couple fronts, but, but first glance, first glance, uh, what's your, what's your take here? 2:32 It's layered 'cause we have to sort of backtrack that Carson Wentz played that game with, like, he'd torn everything. And they, they... McCarthy was not activated. He was the emergency quarterback. 2:43 So Brosnan would've been the backup, yet they kept throwing Wentz out there in that game, which was, was not competitive in the fourth quarter. 2:51 No, and the offensive line was the reason why it wasn't, and whatever wasn't broken and torn up on Carson Wentz was by the end of the game. Yesterday- Yeah... 2:58 after the report came out that Carson Wentz was going to undergo season-ending surgery, an NFL scout texted me out of the blue as a joke, quote, "He should sue for unsafe work conditions- [laughs]... 3:08 for being in that game. His career might be over," unquote. Wow. 3:12 And it just feel like may- I feel like maybe it's the end of the Carson Wentz experience, but, you know, the, the, the fact that we've heard these whispers, or at least I don't know if you have, but I've heard these whispers- Yeah... 3:22 that this J.J. McCarthy injury is actually running cover for a soft benching- Mm-hmm... by Kevin O'Connell. 3:29 I, I think that's as much the reasoning for going shopping for veteran quarterback help today as it is adding to a quarterback room that has Max Brosnan there. You don't really need three. You don't need three. 3:42 You can- Right... get by with two quarterbacks and somebody on your practice squad. You don't need three. 3:47 But the fact that they're going shopping, it, it's a little bit indicative of maybe they don't love, maybe they're more in like than in love with J.J. McCarthy. Right. 3:57 I, I, I heard the soft benching thing from all sorts of q- It's, it's really out there. It- that's what it looks like. And, yeah, and you're right. When we say soft benching, we mean, oh, he's still hurt. 4:09 We're giving the extra week. And what you're really doing is saying, "Well, what, what can Carson Wentz really, possibly, potentially bring us?" 4:15 Which is when he was already hurt and he was getting more and more hurt, really kind of underscores the fact that if McCarthy was the guy, they'd have put him back out there. 4:25 If they thought he was at the g- Caleb Williams would've been put back out there, you know? And Caleb Williams ain't great shakes. You know, he's not, uh, you know, he ain't Drake May, you know? 4:33 He'd, he'd be pushed back out there quickly. McCarthy wasn't. Now you're in the situation where McCarthy's ready to come back. 4:40 Well, one, one logic here is that, well, either McCarthy is able to play or the season's over when you're the three or th- three and four Vikings. If the season's over, you have Brosnan out there. 4:50 I don't know what we're talking about in terms of a veteran quarterback. Are, are we talking about going out and trying to trade for... Well, all of the veteran backups are busy right now, aren't they? 5:00 Th- th- they would m- maybe Jameis. Maybe- Jameis... you call the Giants up for Jameis Winston, who's on a two-year deal. 5:07 Uh, so you could carbon copy the Giants' blueprint of dropping Jameis inst- into the Kevin O'Connell quarterback cocoon to serve as an emergency quarterback alongside J.J. 5:18 McCarthy the rest of this year, play if necessary. And if you decide that you're just done with J.J. 5:23 McCarthy, and you can somehow do better, he can be the mentor to the incoming rookie like the Giants planned for him to be for Jaxson Dart. Right, 'cause you can understand their idea of having some mentorship there. 5:34 But Jameis, if you start, like, Cooper Rush, I guess, is available because he's already flunked out his shot. I, by the way, I love how it works. The, the Kevin O'Connell j- uh, quarterback coo- cocoon. Well, J.J. 5:46 McCarthy isn't getting [laughs] the job, but he's the guy.He's the actual thing. He's not the, "Well, you know, I, I put some spit polish on Sam Darnold and pushed him out." 5:55 He, he, he's the one person you're supposed to fix. Yes, injuries are a big part of this, but if that's what we're really talking about here, then there is no cocoon. 6:03 There's just a loose association of, uh, quarterbacks that did pretty well because they got there, and Justin Jefferson and these other guys were there. 6:10 So there- the layers of this are fascinating, and I, I was talking to Aaron Schatz yesterday on the other podcast. It's l- it's an existential crisis right now for the Vikings, okay? 6:19 'Cause McCarthy has played two games, did not play particularly well in those two games. Had this injury that was a four to six-week injury, lasted six and three-quarters weeks. Now he's kinda back by default. 6:29 They have this urge to bring in another quarterback that we're hearing about, and we might see some kinda trade rather than just slopping out and finding Ryan Tannehill, or I don't know who's sitting out there that you just grab off the, off the street. 6:41 All I- Matt Ryan coming off the CBS desk. You g- go get Matt Ryan? Dr- drag him from, from, from Manhattan, upper Manhattan? There, there was... Last year, Matt Ryan was doing a game. 6:51 He was on the sidelines joking around at halftime, and one of the old defensive players, I don't know who it was, like, like, like Peanut Tillman or whoever, comes up behind him and hugs him without warning, and the wince on Ryan's face suggested that every rib has been perma-shattered. 7:09 Like, I'm standing here in a suit, and somebody hugs me without warning, and I look like death warmed over. Um, hey, Gardner Minshew, he might be out there. There's another guy. Where, where is he? Is he in... 7:21 I've lost track of him. Is he, uh, is he in Raiders, Raider Country? Where, where- He, Ra- Ra- I think, I think he's in Raiders. I mean, that, that could be the spot. 7:28 Philip Johnson checks in, "Keep, uh, Jameis Winston out of this conversation. Send Russell Wilson to the Vikings." [laughs] May- maybe- There you go... you get him for a seventh-round pick. 7:37 You throw it up, and, and J- Justin Jefferson's down there somewhere. You can play that, uh, kind of ball for the next six, six or seven weeks. But, but I do think that the, the... 7:45 if we peel back this, this onion one final layer- Yeah... this whole thing, this whole J.J. McCarthy experiment just screams to me the hubris of Kevin O'Connell and the Vikings franchise. 7:58 When you had a gift horse in Sam Darnold, who led you to the postseason a year ago, the wheels came off by the end, right? The wheels came off- They did... with, with the, the pressure. Yeah. 8:08 The, he was seeing ghosts again with pressure that was not there, pressure perceived as pressure achieved, as we saw from, um, the, the, the, the playoff loss i- in the opening round of the postseason. 8:20 Y- you had Daniel Jones in the building, and we saw what Daniel Jones has become behind a competent offensive line with a slew of weapons, which the Vikings seem to have- Mm-hmm... 8:30 a- and a quarterback whisperer as a head coach, who we've all viewed Kevin O'Connell to be for varying degrees of rightfully and deservingly so over the last decade or so, what- whatever the case may be. 8:40 You let those two veterans walk out of the building because you believe you can take a quarterback from a run-oriented system at the- Hmm... University of Michigan, unlock his potential because you have J.J. 8:54 Addison, because you have Justin Jefferson, because you're Kevin O'Connell, and it just seems like it's blown up in their face. 8:59 The injuries are one thing, but when you let both Darnold and Jones walk out of the building, I, I feel like this is kind of your comeuppance for that if you aren't necessarily the elite quarterback developer and whisperer that you've claimed to be. 9:14 There's, there's layers to that, and, and you're right. One thing is, you remember when the Eagles kept Nick Foles when Carson Wentz was the returning healthy superstar? 9:23 They came up with a compensation package that made sense for Nick Foles, even though there were other suitors out there. Eventually, the Jaguars would throw a ton of money at him. 9:30 You could go to a Sam Darnold and be like, "Okay, two years, I don't know, 68 million with a option," whatever. You could throw something out there, one-year, second-year option. There were ways of doing that. 9:41 They chose not to do it, okay? I'm gonna give you something else, okay? We talk about McCarthy. He's s- at this weird crossroads. S- first-round pick, J.J. McCarthy, 2024. Their other first-round pick, Dallas Turner. 9:52 He's terrible. He's a walking penalty. They're struggling. Their defense is not as good as it should be. They need him to take a, a b- bigger role 'cause some of their, uh, pass rushers have not, uh, have been hurt. 10:03 He hasn't stepped up. The year before, 2023, okay, Jordan Addison, that guy can play. There's been suspensions and injuries. Their third-round pick, Maka- Makai Blackmon, already gone. Gone. Already gone. 10:14 2022, first round, Lewis Cine, gone. Gone. Second round, Andrew Br- Andrew Booth, gone. Third round, Ed Ingram- Booth? Forget Andrew Booth. Ed- Andrew who? Andrew Bluth. Andrew Bluth. He's like Job and Buster's brother. 10:27 Um, Ed Ingram, I think he's with the Texans now. Gone. This front office, I love Kwesi. He seemed like somebody I was gonna really get behind. They have not drafted even remotely well in early rounds. 10:40 They've done good at, like, undrafted free agents. They've kinda found guys on that end. Their draft classes have been weak. McCarthy could be, like, the, uh, the poster bearer for that issue. 10:49 It, it, it could be the fireable offense if, if it doesn't work out. And- Yeah... 10:53 a- and, and, and we can talk all we want about Daniel Jones and Sam Darnold, and I think rightfully so based on what Darnold is doing in Seattle, and obviously Jones leading, uh, the most prolific offense in the sport right now in Indianapolis. 11:04 But the reality is we don't know. We, we don't know- Yeah... if Darnold is going to shrink to the moment as he did a year ago. 11:10 We don't know that Jones is going to be able to keep up this 15 touchdown, three interception pace that he seems to be on. Uh, but, but it just seems like the gamble was too big letting- Yeah... 11:20 those two guys walk out of the building after you were around them. Y- y- you had the ability to see them in practice, see them in meetings- Yes... and you still decided that J.J. McCarthy... 11:30 Th- there's no shame in trading a first-round pick who 31 other franchises view as a lottery ticket because- Mm-hmm... Daniel Jones works out or because Sam- Yeah... Darnold works out. 11:41 It blows up in your face when those guys go on to have MVP caliber seasons the following year a- and you drafted a bust. 11:48 Right, and we're past the point of the, "Oh, look, Sam Darnold," I think we did this last week, "Sam Darnold in the first round of the playoffs threw an interception. See? We told you." 11:56 Dude, you guys are five and 12You're five and 12. [laughs] You did not, you did not show us anything there. You made, you, you picked the greater of two evils, so to speak. No doubt. 12:06 And let's just switch gears a little bit to a team that is suddenly firing on all cylinders after Monday night's game, uh, the Kansas City Chiefs. 12:13 The Chiefs are the Chiefs, and talking to people, it, it, it's amazing what happens when you have all of your weapons. All of a sudden- Hmm... Patrick Mahomes is Patrick Mahomes again. Rashee Rice comes back. 12:25 He's nine for nine, 93 yards and a touchdown last night. He has 135 and three scores over the last two games. Travis Kelce, couple of touchdowns last night, just seems to find his way into the open space. 12:38 Is there anything more to say than Kansas City is, regardless of record, one of the teams to beat on that side of the bracket? They're, they're one of the teams to beat. 12:45 They are the team to beat, or they and the Bills are the teams to beat, with all due, due respect to the Colts. That's why we call them the team to beat. You have to go and beat them for us to take you seriously. 12:55 In a big game, we hear you Patriots fans, in a big game. Almost nothing to add to that. The Commanders, it was interesting, because they were... 13:01 I, I would say they were outplaying the Chiefs in the first quarter, maybe midway through the first half. Couple interceptions on defense. 13:08 They [laughs] march down the field, and, and, and Deebo shot puts the interception to defend a ve- the very first drive. Where are they at this point? I mean, I don't know where... Is it ti- can we... 13:19 I mean, obviously it's a Jayden Daniels injury exacerbated fall, but c- are we writing off the Commanders at this point? 13:28 I, I don't know that I'm ready to completely write them off, but we're gonna know by Thanksgiving weekend. The, the- Okay... Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend, because here's the schedule. Okay. 13:35 You have the Seahawks at home- Hmm... the Lions at home. You get the mini bye against the Dolphins, and then you have the Broncos. 13:42 So if, if you don't, you're only three and five right now, and if you look at the rest of the NFC and how dominant the NFC North has been, y- you have one, maybe two, maybe three teams in the mix out of the NFC West. 13:53 The only real path at this point for the Commanders to the postseason is winning the wild card. If you don't go three and one over that stretch, I think you stick a fork in them, right? And you name those teams. 14:05 Those are better teams. And the thing is, I think if you put a healthy Jayden Daniels in, the te- the teams you named are better teams. Commanders defense isn't great. 14:14 I haven't seen, the playmaker corps hasn't, like, developed in the way that we thought it was. Part of that was injuries along the way. 14:20 But I don't look at that team and say, "Oh yeah, a healthy Daniels and everything, straight up, they'll beat the Seahawks." They don't look like that. S- s- say nothing of a team like the Lions. 14:29 Right, and the Lions might be the best team in football, and, and, and- Right... you know, they, they get them two weeks after their bye. Right. 14:34 So i- I mean, it's just one of those things where it, it's bad timing and, and th- they seem angry ever since losing that week one game, like they've kinda gone on this personal revenge tour- [laughs]... 14:45 uh, for being written off too early. Uh. Right. But, but yeah, I, I think the Commanders are a mess. And if you stay in the NFC East, the Eagles get a blowout win over the Giants, and they do it without A.J. Brown. Yes. 14:57 You know, I think we need to revisit the, the wide receiver con scale that I struggled with a few weeks ago. Yes, yes. Where are you now after the A.J. 15:05 Brown hamstring, and there's some whispers on social media that Brown's gone in and, and deleted early in the bye week some, like, complimentary posts about the Eagles. 15:15 I mean, I, I hate reading this l- deep into things, but, but fans are obsessed with this stuff. Apparently A.J. Brown is deleting complimentary things that he's said about Philly? Wh- wh- wh- what is happening here? 15:25 You're, you're forced to pay attention to it because the 28-year-old adult is actually doing this, doing stuff that if I heard that there was a fight in the eighth grade cafeteria over a girl or something like that, and they were all taking stuff off of their, whatever young people use. 15:44 I mean, uh, what- what- whatever it's called. Don't even tell me. I don't wanna know. Whatever social media they use, they're deleting stuff off of Snapchat or whatever. 15:51 That's wh- so you have to pay attention, 'cause he's taking the time to do it, which means he's upset on that level. He's injured right now, um, you know, w- uh, for a big game. And what, what are, what are you hearing? 16:06 Yeah, I, I, I've been reluctant to, like, ask around much on this, because, you know, the last- Okay... 16:10 time I had an a- uh, an agent come back or a source come back and tell me, you know, it, it's, uh, res- diva receiver wants to Baltimore antics was what I was told- Yeah... a couple of weeks ago. 16:19 But that was still a couple weeks ago. I think the extent to what I'm hearing is it would cost $45 million in dead money to trade him, right? Yeah, yeah. He triggers a $45 million dead money charge. 16:30 That seems prohibitive, and Jeffrey Lurie at the owners' meetings in Manhattan last week told Diana Russini of The Athletic, uh, that the Eagles, they're going to do what's best for the Eagles and for the roster and for the team moving forward. 16:44 Right. I, I, I don't believe that trading away A.J. Brown, your best receiver, your most prolific and important offensive weapon, makes the Eagles better. But the flip side of that coin is 16:54 if it becomes untenable and, and it, it's beyond just a hamstring injury and, and we, we go to wide receiver con two i- in terms- Mm-hmm... of the worry meter, 17:05 th- then does it become the best thing to move on if you're getting a draft pick or a young receiver and Saquon Barkley's running wild 'cause you figured out your offensive line scheme to, to spree, to free him up a little more, and DeVonta Smith is being productive? 17:20 At, at what point do you draw the line in the sand? Because I, I don't think he's getting moved. I wouldn't expect the Eagles to actively shop him. Yeah. 17:26 But at some point you, you have to wonder if there's a breaking point for both sides. I, I think there is. I don't know if we're there, but there are things that I believe 17:36 are bad for the team that still happen all the time, uh, or that- Yeah... become these necessary steps. So you'll look at anything from a analytical standpoint, on-field standpoint, team needs A.J. 17:46 Brown, figure this out. And yet this sort of rolling controversy, uh, you know, on the one hand, oh, it got better. He got a, you know, some big plays against the, um, the Vikings. 17:56 Then a week later he's got a hamstring injury. It looks like it, now he's gotta miss this game. There's like this weird quiet, you know... 18:03 Russini's also talking about how, you know, the Eagles would definitely listen to a blockbusterI don't know if the blockbuster will be out there. 18:09 'Cause you're right, with the dead hit, you'd be going to this other team, you say, "Well, we have to take this dead hit, but you've gotta eat the salary." 18:15 Uh, or maybe you create some kind of sign and trade situation on that part. We need more. We need more to absorb this. How we can, like, exor- ex- exact a lot of more from people, but, like, there's a limit. But it, 18:29 it's, it's not... A lot of times with these things, it's like it's just not happening. It's gobble gobble. Right. I don't think this is total gobble gobble. Uh, the, the, the team that jumps out to me- Uh-huh... 18:39 if this is more than just a- an annoyance and a superstar diva wide receiver blowing off steam, is the New England Patriots. Right. Because they're, they're all, they're, they're all in on Drake May. Right. 18:49 You go back to Vrabel. Yep. The, the, you, you, you, you kinda... I, I don't, I don't get the sense it was Vrabel who traded AJ Brown. I, I don't get the s- I, I, I got the sense- Oh, I-... that that came from... 18:59 You, you think, uh, you think it was Vrabel? You think he was- I, I think it was very knee-jerk, fast, you want money, uh. 19:05 Now, now it might've been nobody was actually looking at the ledger and looking to solve problems, but it happened very quickly. It seemed like it was a huffy type of thing. 19:12 I think, I think Vrabel's fingerprints were on that, but go, but go on. That's, that's, you know. 54 million in cap space. You're relying on- Yeah... uh, Nosion, uh, Keshawn Holt and Stefon Diggs- Okay... 19:24 as your top two wide receivers with Drake May off to this torrid pace and, and you're leading the way in the AFC East. $54.3 million in cap space this year. They have the money to make it work financially. Yeah. 19:36 But, but if, if the, the feelings are too hurt, then- Yeah... I don't think it happens. 19:41 But if there's a financial apology with a couple extra zeros, and if AJ Brown decides that he can't stand the Eagles so terribly that he wants to move on and go elsewhere, maybe, maybe he buries his half of the hatchet. 19:53 Uh, but o- outside of that, the Eagles are likely not trading him within the NFC. So you're looking at a cap space situation for a contender. 20:01 You're down to Jacksonville at $12 million, and they're looking to move up Brian Thomas. Maybe it's a player for player swap, but I just, I, I- I don't-... don't see the financials working there. 20:10 Oh, God, the Eagles with Brian Thomas, bringing him in. The two drop passes and Jalen Hurts never looked again. Now I'm p- uh, picture, uh, I got a, an image for you, the Patriots receiver corps. So picture a boat 20:22 out at sea. Steve, Stefon Diggs is the captain, too too, with his, uh, w- w- with, with, uh- With, uh, Suzui his crew... with Ginger and Mary Ann as his crew, et cetera. 20:33 Um, sitting and relaxing, reading a book, reading Dostoevsky, AJ Brown, ah. And then snorkeling around looking at the fishies, Mack Hollins. 20:44 [laughs] The NFL's biggest aquarium fit guy, the James Cameron of the NFL, Mack Hollins, is swimming around happily, uh, ignoring Ginger and Mary Ann and everything like that because he wants to go, uh, uh, look at the, the pretty colored fishies. 20:59 It works. There's chemistry there, right? That's chemistry. [laughs] Pretty cl- a- as, as good as you're gonna get. As good a chemistry as you're gonna get. 21:07 And then when it's time for them to weigh anchor, Roma- Armando E- Stevenson picks up the anchor and drops it. And that's the end. That's the end of my saga. Drake- Saga. 21:20 [laughs] Drake May flies in, lifts the whole boat up, takes it to the shore, puts it down like Superman. The end. 21:26 Philip Johnson checks in: "Do you think the Eagles' lack of productivity, meaning Saquon's yard per rush and AJ Brown's targets, is due to Kevin Patullo's first year as OC and some growing pains?" 21:35 Uh, your thoughts there. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't love... I only started loving what Patullo was doing when I saw the sixth offensive lineman and all that stuff going on last week. 21:45 Like, oh, I un- I understand what they're doing here, and I'm kind of enjoying this. I haven't been impressed so far. What happens when a team keeps going three and out? 21:53 It's three and outs, uh, uh, lead to more three and outs, and they lead to, "Why hasn't this guy gotten the ball yet? Why hasn't this guy got going?" It's because nothing has gotten going, 'cause it's three and out. 22:03 And then of course you do get, like, some splash plays. "Oh, we got a 50-yard touchdown," but there's still all these three and outs. 22:08 The guy, th- they haven't had the ball enough for some of these things to get going, and it's starting to come around, so th- that might be a, a, a, a cause for hope. 22:16 Yeah, a- and I talked to Brian Baldinger about this on Sunday night. You know, what- Uh-huh... what sparked the, the breakout from Saquon? 'Cause that was really the first game where he looked like Saquon Barkley. 22:25 We've, we've spent- Yes... a lot of time on this podcast talking about whether the explosiveness was gone, whether it was the wear and tear from the 2,000-yard season last year. 22:33 I- i- is it time to, uh, we could, you know, uh, splitting the carries and keeping him fresh and all those things. 22:38 But, but it turns out for the first time, according to Baldinger, this season, they, they ran a pin and pull where you had- Yeah... two linemen pulling at the same time. 22:46 And the way Baldinger sa- summed it up was the explosiveness and the speed didn't change, he just got bigger holes today. 22:54 A- and if, if you're making those sort of adjustments and you can spring him with that offensive line, kinda changing your blocking scheme and the way you're doing things- Mm-hmm... 23:02 may- you know, may- maybe Saquon Barkley becomes the focal point again and, and you kinda write off the first half of the year as, you know, trying to figure out what the 2025 version of this offense and what the 2025 version of Saquon Barkley is and is going to be. 23:16 And if that's the case, Philly's as dangerous as anybody. That's it, and you're right. 23:20 It's like Saquon looks different because the offensive line, the blocking in general, including the tight ends and all, looked different last week. Against a good defensive front. 23:28 The Giants have a good defensive front, yeah. Th- they, they really do, and just turning the page a little bit to the trade deadline, which is coming up on November 4th- Yes... 23:35 I wrote in the column as the lead, spoke to a general manager late last week, and he told me, quote, "It's, it's quiet- Mm-hmm... unusually quiet," unquote. So- Huh... 23:45 reading between those lines and just kinda watching everything play out this weekend, Mike, it seems like the fact that there's 18 teams that are 500 or better- Yeah... 23:53 and you have a few more teams that are within one game of the wild card either way on both sides of the bracket, my theory is I think we'll eventually get a more active trade deadline. Right. 24:03 But it really feels like there are so few sellers 'cause there's so few teams out of the mix that are willing to just wave the white flag and, and surrender. 24:12 And the teams that are contending, th- they don't necessarily wanna be the team that gets fleeced.Right. 24:18 Right, and you look at the teams at the bottom, we did see, uh, the Titans, McCreary, they traded a guy to the Rams, so that took the Rams off the cornerback market. 24:25 You look at the Titans and it's like, well, who can they move? There's not a lot of guys to move at these bottom-rung teams. I think the Dolphins have some veterans that you could move around. 24:33 You look at a team like the Saints, I, I, I've heard things about Alonté Taylor being on the market, Rashid Shaheed being on the market, so they might have some, uh, uh, assets there. It's not like it's... 24:44 The Browns aren't exactly a shopper's paradise. They already moved a couple guys, right, early in the season, and you can't move Myles Garrett. It's like, oh, well, let's... It's all undrafted rookies. 24:54 There's, there's, there's no Darren there. There's nobody that can say, "Oh, grab this guy, he's going to help us contend right away," and that's probably contributing to it. 25:00 You said, though, you did get a couple of nibbles, right? 25:03 Yeah, the, the one name that I heard today, asking around with a couple agents, just what they're hearing in their conversations with teams, Jakobi Meyers's name came up from two different agents who mentioned that he could be on the move. 25:15 Um, o- one said that a trade there could be really possible. Meyers requested a trade from the Raiders back in the summertime. So far there's no movement. You know, you just start to connect the dots a little bit. 25:26 Wide receiver needy teams, the Steelers need to get a wide receiver. Like, I, I- Mm-hmm... let me scream it into the megaphone. Hey, Pittsburgh- [laughs]... go get a receiver. It, it, it has to happen. 25:36 If, if you're going to make good on this Aaron Rodgers rental, you need- Uh-huh... to go get help there because other than DK Metcalf, it's just not enough. It's just not working. 25:46 Uh, the, the Panthers, if you're anywhere serious about trying to win this year and make the postseason, maybe Carolina makes some sense to flip a draft pick to, to the Vegas Raiders. 25:57 And the 49ers, if you think that you're never going to get Brandon Aiyuk, Jauan Jennings, and Ricky Pearsall all on the field all at once together for even a play or two, the Niners make some sense for Jakobi Meyers. 26:11 Yeah, I'm just looking and he was inactive last week. The last three games, four catches each game for 30, 32, 39. 26:18 They've got him in this little goofy, goofy role, probably just, like, catching underneath passes or quick screens or whatever. It's what you get for requesting a trade. 26:25 You request a trade, you, you get sent to, you know, uh, you're running the bottom rung of the, of the- Right... of the, uh, the route tree. And, and, and it seems like Vegas really operates that way. 26:34 There's, like, all kind of doghouse stuff going on there. A lot of dog- And they brought in Tyler Lockett, we're bringing in all of Pete Carroll's binkies. 26:40 We're bringing all Brady's binkies who might be left over to the Buccaneers. Buccaneers don't get rid of anybody, but if they got rid of somebody, they wound up on the Raiders along the way. 26:48 So Meyers could be on the move. I like him as somebody who can come in. He's generally been a good ace in the locker room. Um, you know, not somebody who's gonna come in and be weird. Um, I don't know how helpful he is. 27:00 I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't think he helps the Steelers. I, I'll tell you right now the unpopular take, I don't think the Steelers need a receiver. 27:06 The Steelers are out there going two and three tight ends and using offensive linemen as, as tight ends for a reason, because they're just terrified of Aaron Rodgers getting hurt, getting hit. 27:16 Rodgers does not wanna get hit. He gets the ball out of there so darn quickly. 27:20 Unless you're bringing in the biggest yak producer, like a Tyreek, like, "Here, get it, go," any of these other guys, you know what a Jakobi Meyers would give the Steelers, he'd give them four catches for 32 yards, which is what he's given the Raiders. 27:32 So, but I like Meyers as a useful piece. For sure, and I, I just don't know who the other receivers are on the market. Brian Thomas's name has been floated in a couple conversations. Mm. I saw his name reported. 27:44 You know, Jakobi Meyers averaging 11.3 yards per reception. Uh, averaging- Yeah... per target only 9.9 yards, so he's not a field stretcher. 27:52 He could be that quick out type of guy, um, but you're just as likely to get thrown into a stretcher by an Aaron Rodgers hospital ball as you are to- [laughs]... be after the catch machine in that system. 28:03 Yeah, he, he had a... Meyers had a 45-yard catch against the Commanders, but his last three games, again, 10, 16, and 16 are the highest. He's a good... He's a piece. He is a good complementary piece. 28:13 So if, like, you took mention of the 49ers, we are injury ravaged. We need a guy who shows up, hustles, can, maybe can move the chains a couple of times. That would be somebody. 28:23 Um, and again, I've heard Rashid Shaheed's name. That's your stretcher. Yes. If I'm the Bills, and like, "I need the force multiplier," what do we really need? We've got everything. 28:33 Somebody who goes super fast in a straight line and can catch a 90 zillion yard pass. That is literally Rashid Shaheed's one trick. Go get it. 28:42 The Saints have got to be motivated at this point to be like, "Give us some draft picks, please. Give us anything." They benched, benched Spencer Rattler for good. You know, he, he's- They just did... 28:50 done for the rest of the year. 28:52 So yeah, go, go get, uh, go get a draft pick to either bolster your chances of trading up to number one overall or get a second or third round pick to package to move up and get a blue-chip player to put around your young quarterback. 29:05 Niraj on the go checks in, "Maybe the Bucs could use Jakobi Meyers. They have so many other wide receiver injuries." 29:11 The problem with that theory is they, they have such a next man up mentality, that that's w- how they operate in that building, and Taysom Hill has stepped up. Yeah. Kevin Johnson has stepped up. 29:20 I think they're probably two weeks away maybe from getting, um, uh, Mc- McMillan back. It, it just seems, Jalen McMillan back on the field, it seems like they have the depth. 29:30 But if you're looking to just go over the top, uh, I, I think Tampa makes a little bit of sense there. But I, I'm kind of with you here, Mike, that, you know, Rashid Shaheed in Buffalo would maximize Josh Allen. Yeah. 29:43 And you're gonna, you're gonna still bludgeon teams over the head with James Cook as they did in Carolina the other day. 29:49 That, that extra space that you have to kind of back off your safeties a little bit to, uh, uh, you know, take away the deep threat, that opens the running game up even more, which is how they want to operate and when they're at their best. 29:59 And he's a big-time return man who can add that element to things. One thing about the Bucs, Sterling Shepard is pretty similar to Jakobi Meyers. 30:07 Meyers might be a little more versatile, 'cause Shepard, you got to kind of slot him, especially at this point in his career. But they do dip- duplicate services. 30:14 It comes down to, like, who's going to be healthy at what time of all the guys who are hurt. Ebuke is back, so that's one, uh, mitigated fear for them.N- yeah, absolutely. 30:23 And, you know, the running back market is interesting. I think the team that should be at the top of the running back market- Yeah... 30:29 shopping the most aggressively i- is one of the teams we started talking about at the top of the show, and that's the Kansas City Chiefs. They have everything. They, they have the receivers. 30:37 You know, Patrick Mahomes is, uh, the, the most clutch quarterback walking the planet at this moment in time. [laughs] Go, go maximize it. 30:44 Go, go get a running game, 'cause if there's one thing the Chiefs have struggled with through this entire dynasty is having that dominant ground attack. You saw Pacheco get banged up on Monday night. Mm-hmm. 30:53 Go get a Breece Hall from the Jets, because, you know, you look at the Jets, they got Isaiah Davis some run. 30:59 He's a guy in that building I know they really like because he's not only a running back, but he's a threat catching the ball out of the backfield. 31:05 Um, the, the, the, the number two running back, Brandon Allen, is banged up a little bit, but I think the Jets are in that situation where they want draft picks, they want assets. 31:14 Breece Hall's probably the most attractive running back on the market. If I'm Kansas City, I'm, I- I'm at least gauging the market. I'm at least taking the temperature there. 31:22 If I'm Aaron Glenn and you trade Breece Hall after a 200-yard game, I just drive into the Hudson River. I just drive into the Raritan 'cause they're dead up in, uh, Florham Park. 31:33 But, uh, a- and if I'm Sauce Gardner and I, Garrett Wilson, I see Breece Hall just left after that performance, like, I think we'll stay injured for all of eternity right now and just collect your money, thank you, Woody Johnson. 31:43 I understand it, but I can't imagine them moving it right now. Chiefs, the Chiefs are gonna chief. They're not going to go out there and do something big for a running back. 31:50 I say it, Kareem Hunt, he had nine for 40 yesterday. They like Rashard Smith, although he was not l- he was not very m- much of a factor. Something they could use, I just don't see them running out and getting it. 32:00 Do you think Alvin Kamara is on the market? Because I've heard his name bandied about. You know, y- how much of this is people just making lists? How much of it is an informed speculation? 32:08 But y- they, we talked about which teams are you calling, which teams are sellers. 32:13 If, if it weren't for, uh, the, the Dolphins beating Atlanta on Sunday, I'd say the Dolphins are completely open for business, and they might still be. 32:22 But the Saints are one of those few teams where you can go to and start kind of, like, mulling through things like you are at a yard sale, picking out- Yeah... 32:29 the, the card binder, looking for the Michael Jordan rookie card that, that Mom left in there for, for 50 cents. I, I don't have the Saints cap situation open to look at what their cap is looking like. Well, sure. 32:40 It's probably terrible. It's, it's probably- Right... atrocious. Right, right. My, my computer could, like, actually short out if I try to do this. You know, we can talk about the Eagles. Oh, the 40 million for A.J. 32:50 Brown would hurt them. It would hurt them, but they could work on it. The Saints, if they have too many cap hits in the future, can't field a roster. 32:56 Uh, here's Kamara last three weeks: against New England, 10 carries for 31 yards; against the Bears, 11 carries for 28 yards; against the Buccaneers, six carries for 21 yards. 33:06 And this is a team that lost Kendre Miller to an injury a couple weeks ago, so they needed more Kamara. I'm sure they'd move Kamara. For who? To what end? Like, what's he got? What's he got? What's he really got? Right. 33:19 He's actually- How, how much juice is there? Yeah. And rec- everybody says, "Well, he's a receiver, too." His receiving numbers have not been that good. I think he had three catches for one yard against the Bears. 33:29 So we're not talking about somebody who's going out there and, like, catching a million screen passes. I, I, I feel like this is people making a list because, um- Yeah. 33:36 If we- Dead, dead money, $28.2 million if you trade Alvin Kamara this year. Um, cap savings, you're, you're charging yourself 18.2 million against the cap this year. For, like, a 30-year-old running back. 33:50 For a 30-year-old running back. Anyway, by the way, I, I j- Sub- suboptimal. I just want... Because I have the screen up, I'm just looking at Taysom Hill, 11 rushes for two yards. Why are we still doing this? 34:05 Why are we still doing this? Why? I thought that that, I thought that that experiment would have crashed out the moment that Sean Payton, you know, up and left town. 34:12 W- w- well, why is that still, why is that still even part of the playbook? 34:15 [laughs] Kellen Moore is looking at this, but, and part of it is 'cause the guy's making $11 million, so you might as well see what you can do out of this, and you've got these young quarterbacks. 34:24 It's like, "Oh, we'll run wild cat once in a while." 11 carries, two yards. 34:29 The other market that I think is going to heat up, and could be a domino effect where one trade happens and next thing you know you're gonna see the secondary moves follow shortly after, is at edge rusher. 34:40 And I wrote it in the- Yeah... column that, you know, Brad Holmes in Detroit, John Lynch in San Francisco, Howie Roseman in Philly, they're all probably making the same phone calls that might or- Yeah... 34:50 might not be being answered today. They might be being answered on November 2nd. Mm-hmm. 34:55 Uh, but, but I thought that the outcomes on Sunday were kind of interesting there because do, does Cincinnati losing to the Jets change the calculus when it comes to Trey Hendrickson? I, I think it might. Yeah. 35:09 Uh, Arnold Ebiketie, I've been told up and down has been available, um, for weeks in Atlanta. Jermaine Johnson from the Jets- Yeah... they'd probably love to get a draft pick there. 35:20 But if you're the Bengals and you decide, "Hey, you know what? 35:22 We were gonna try to hang on with Joe Flacco until Joe Burrow got healthy, and we were gonna try to win enough games to be within striking distance," well, you look up on October 28th, and you look at the AFC playoff standings, and the Cincinnati Bengals, uh, have, have not been eliminated, because no one has- Yeah... 35:40 but they're in 10th place with a 7% chance- [laughs]... of making the postseason according to NFL Media's playoff projections. 35:46 So if you're the Eagles, if you're the Lions, if you're the 49ers, are you not burning down the phone lines to Duke Tobin trying to trade for Trey Hendrickson? I think you're trying. 35:55 One thing, he did have a minor injury last week, so there's probably some swirling about, like, what's really going on there, 'cause he got knocked out of that game in the fourth quarter and promp- or in the third quarter, and then in the fourth quarter, all hell broke loose for that defense. 36:08 You pick up the phone, you do it. You're trying to do business with the Bengals. They're obstinate. They do these things these weird ways. You talk about these guys like Ebiketie and Johnson. 36:16 I like them because they're younger players. You're making smaller moves, okay? So you say, "Oh, for the price of a mid-round pick," you get a guy in his early 20s, mid-20s to bring in and put in your rotation. 36:29 The Niners don't necessarily need a lot more salary and age.They need healthy humans, and that might be the way they go with that. Eagles, I say, I would put in the same boat there. 36:38 So- I think they're in the same boat because they're so desperate for pass rush help that they convinced Brandon Graham to come out of retirement after nine months. And nothing against Brandon Graham. 36:45 Great guy, locker room glue. Yeah. Very good player. Don't know how good at this stage of his career. 36:51 If you can get even a rotational edge rusher to drop in there, I think it makes Vic Fangio's defense, uh, more dominant. Uh, but, but it just seems like that's the market, where there are so many- Yeah... 37:01 teams poking around, that one trade happens, all of a sudden you're gonna see teams kind of look, oh, you know, uh, uh, A- Abike got fetched for a fifth rounder. Can you get me a fourth for Jermaine Johnson? You know? 37:13 Right. Right. Hendrickson, can, can we get him for, for one first-round pick instead of two? You know- Right... you're gonna start to see things happen once that first trade goes down. 37:22 Bradley Chubb is somebody people might go after- Exactly... and the Dolphins, et cetera. And it's the one position most teams look at and say, "The edge rusher don't have to learn anything." 37:31 Wide receivers, you're worried about chemistry and stuff like that, you know. Offensive lineman and all the cornerbacks who might cover two, cover three, cover four. Get quarterback, eat quarterback. 37:40 You know, you can go in on the rotation. It's third and 12. You know what to do, Trey Hendrickson. [laughs] Go get 'em. So, so you can make that instant impact, so that's why you see so much of it. 37:49 I, I think we'll see something. Uh, the one team that I think people should keep an eye on though is the Green Bay Packers, especially after winning in Pittsburgh the way that they won. 37:59 You, you look at, at Tucker Kraft going off. You look at Micah Parsons wreaking havoc on two different series late in the fourth quarter to kinda put the Steelers and Aaron Rodgers to bed. 38:09 But they have injuries up front on the offensive line. I- Yeah... I didn't think they did a great job protecting Jordan Love throughout that game. 38:16 Carrington Valentine had a couple really nice pass breakups, especially- Yeah... against D.K. Metcalf, but let's be real here. He's Carrington Valentine. Is he gonna do that- And, and he-... consistently? 38:25 [laughs] And he might be their one. He might be their top guy. Yeah. That, that's what I'm saying. If you're going up- Yeah... against Amon-Ra St. Brown or A.J. 38:33 Brown in the postseason or Justin Jefferson in a game that you have to have late to lock down the number one or number two seed, I don't know that Carrington Valentine is the guy that I want, you know, shadowing Justin Jefferson there. 38:45 If I'm Brian Gutekunst, after going all in and making the move of the year trading for Micah Parsons, it, it's bordering on negligent not to go make phone calls for offensive line help and- Mm... 38:57 a starting caliber, uh, cornerback. I thought that the Roger McCreary trade was bad for the Eagles, losing out a corner to an NFC rival. Yeah. 39:05 You make the same argument for the Packers, who I think have an even bigger needed corner than Philadelphia does, with less margin for error given how dominant the NFC North is and how many really [laughs] elite wide receivers are in that division. 39:20 I think that's a problem for the Packers. Offensive line, I'll say this, they've been rotating guys all year, and they have been rotating guys for years. 39:27 They've got all these dudes off the bench who come off like, "Oh, wait, you've started, you know, 11 games the last two seasons and not yet gotten Jordan Love murdered." So, uh, you, you... 39:35 I, I don't think on the offensive line they're gonna do it. Cornerback's interesting. The Colts need a cornerback. The Colts, who are cruising right now, uh, they had Xavien Howard retire. 39:45 Uh, Charvarius Ward got smashed into each o- another teammate in camp while they were watching Anthony Wi- Richardson put his eye out with the, uh, uh, w- with the electric rifle. Um, sorry. [laughs] Um, what did he do? 40:00 He snapped the band back in his... Uh, whatever. [laughs] The Colts need a cornerback is what I'm saying, and there are a couple other teams on that list. Honestly, the Lions need one too. 40:10 Lions need edge, they need corner, they need depth- Yeah... because you, you gotta worry about preventing the kind of injury outburst that they saw last year that torpedoed their entire defense and their season. Right. 40:21 Right. So Alona Taylor, again, he's a guy who's out there, early round pick, runs around, usually gets the job done, relatively speaking for the Saints. He's athletic. There's one. I don't know who else is out there. 40:31 I saw Russell Douglas' name brought out there. You're... Don't think people are trading for a guy who was on the street until, like, August 28th, and then the Dolphins grabbed him as an afterthought. I don't... 40:41 You know, you know, if he's available for conditional seventh-round pick, then you grab him. 40:44 But, like, I don't know what's out there at cornerback that these teams can bring in and say, "Well, this is an upgrade off of somebody we had in camp with us that we can call off a practice squad." 40:53 And I like Russell Douglas, think he's a good player. He's mostly a slot. Yeah. You're kinda limiting yourself into how you can use him, whereas McCreary has experience playing both. And I- Yeah... 41:02 I like that addition for the Rams because you can play him in the slot, you can play him on the perimeter, matchup dependent. 41:07 You can move, um, uh, a, a guy like, um, I interviewed him for the show a few times, uh, the, the safety. Um, Lake. You, you can- Oh, yeah... you can move Lake around a little bit to create some matchup problems there. 41:20 Just a really interesting fit for the Rams, who I think upgraded their secondary. 41:25 And they're a squad that if they don't give up a couple passes over their head against Philly and that blocked field goal, you're talking about them potentially being a, an undefeated, one-loss type of team that can make some real noise. 41:35 Right. I also noticed the Bears have had a lot of injuries. They might be in the cornerback market as well. So you got a lot of buyers, potential buyers. Not a lot of sellers. 41:43 I saw Cam Taylor-Britt from the Bengals' name come up, if the Bengals are fire-saling guys. 41:49 It's hard to say, because like you said, one reason it's slow, a team like the Bengals might still be saying, "We gotta put a run together. 41:55 We spent a lot of money this off-season, and we just got a win over the Steelers, and we still have a 7.8% chance. We can't, uh, just fire sale now. We just can't do it." 42:05 The debate has to be for Cincinnati, is Trey Hendrickson on this defense enough to keep us in position to be in a position to make a run when Joe Burrow gets back in three weeks or whatever it's going to be, four weeks time? 42:19 Or, or is trading Trey Hendrickson for a first-round pick and a second-round pick that we can turn into two offensive linemen to try to prevent Joe Burrow from suffering a long-term injury like we've seen a, a few times now that have wrecked their seasons, i- is he more valuable in the short term this year, or is it getting that draft capital? 42:37 And, and I'm almost inclined, given the fact that they collapsed against the Jets, that the long-term view might be the right view there.I think so, and I start to wonder not just what Duke Tobin and the Brown family thinks, but what Barrow, Chase, and Higgins think. 42:53 They're all in this together for the long term. And you see Barrow is, he's rehabilitating, saying, "Look, we are getting ready for your return," maybe you can sell him on that. 43:02 I don't know how you sell the whole thing in the locker room. After everything we went through with Henderson in the entire spring and summer, to turn around and say, "Oh, we, yeah, we got a first-round pick for him. 43:11 Here we go. Stack Taylor, goodbye. Bye." You know? It, it's, it's a tricky, it's a tricky political sell in the, in the, uh, in the headquarters. So, so, so you bring Barrow, you bring Chase, you bring Higgins. 43:23 Uh, Taylor, Taylor can wait in the car. You bring them to Skyline Chili, and you have a good old-fashioned chili summit, and you hammer this out. "But what do you guys want? What preserves peace in the locker room? 43:34 What, what, what's the vision here? Well, how should we, how should we approach this?" Do you like Cincinnati chili? So if Cincinnati has a chance to go chase a, chase a ring, he, he, he might- Oh, no... 43:42 go, go take, go chase a ring. O- oh, he won't be like, "Oh, no, please don't send me to, to Detroit, heaven forbid." Do you like Cincinnati chili? I'm not a big chili guy, but if there- Okay... 43:52 is a chili that I'd probably like is if you're gonna slam the cheddar cheese on there, I'd probably be more, more inclined. Okay. It, you, you do you. 44:00 It's like we've ruined cinnamon toast, and we've ruined chili, and we've ruined spaghetti by piling them on top of each other. I have never understood that. You do you, Cincinnati. 44:11 We- One of the weirdest food delicacies in this country. [laughs] Not a fan. A Frankens- Not a fan... a, a Frankenstein monster of, of, of food. 44:21 W- you, you alluded to it, the fact that there's so many contenders that, that who knows who's gonna be waving the white flag. I, I love this idea on the outline that we should play some, uh, some NFL Jeopardy. Yes. 44:31 Who, who are these teams and what are they? Um, so I don't know if you wanna start and serve one up, or, or if I should, uh, kick things off here and give you a team. 44:40 Ha- logistically, we should've figured this out beforehand, but, but how do we wanna, how do we wanna actually play this game? [laughs] I, I'm loading up the, um, the, the, the outline since I forgot what I wrote on it. 44:49 Uh, I will tee you up, okay? So- Okay... so I will be either Ken Jennings or, because I'm old and almost cadaverous, Alex Trebek, and I will tee, tee you up with the question right now. 45:03 Actually, in Jeopardy, you have, you give... Never mind. Jeopardy. Who are the Cowboys? I'm, I'm glad you asked, because I will be writing about the Cowboys- Oh... 45:14 uh, this week, do- doing some legwork on, on the Cowboys and their defense. Uh, but the, what is or who is an NFC wild card threat that would contend for the division championship if they only had a defense? 45:27 They should probably go visit the Wizard of Oz and get a defense. I like it. I like it. Uh, somebody in my mail bag described them as simply an AEW entertainment property disguised as a sport. 45:42 And I- Sounds about right based on how they- Yeah... used AT&T Stadium in the summertime. Yes, and based on the last 40 years of their existence, where, uh, Jerry Jones is, is a Vince McMahon-like character there. 45:53 But, but that is a, so, and if we're thinking of this as, as the, the Tin Woodsman in search of a defense or as AEW, I'd go back to expect the unexpected with this team, because that was absurd what we saw on Sunday. 46:08 Yeah. But then they came off a previous week, and the, and other than betting the over every single time, because they're clearing every single over, don't take anything for granted. 46:16 We can all sort of have our, have our yucks at the Cowboys. They could score 40 points against you at any time, and that makes them dangerous. 46:23 Go trade one of those ones that you got from the Packers for, for Trey Hendrickson. Fix that defense. I love, again, we keep going back to, yeah, you know what they need to figure out how to get a pass rusher. 46:33 They need to get a pass rusher. It's a, it's a joke, it's a joke that keeps on giving, and, and it's- Yes... I was, I was texting with somebody on Sunday. 46:39 Uh, it- it's the ultimate irony that they finally get an offense that has all the weapons they need. You have- Yeah... 46:45 uh, you have, uh, CeeDee Lamb, you have George Pickens, you have Schoonmaker, you have a, a d- decent stable of running backs. You have Dak playing at an MVP level- Mm-hmm... and your defense is total shit. 46:56 There, there's some cruel irony for Dallas and Jerry Jones that had they just done nothing- Mm-hmm... with Micah Parsons, you know? Yeah. Just done nothing and, and forced him to play this year- Right... 47:08 th- th- they, they might be, they might be the team that's five and two in the NFC East. R- right, the grimiest, crappiest move, like we know you can't actually hold out, would've been better than what they did. 47:19 Like, they, like the worst boss type of move. Also, Micah obviously would've improved things. They have problems secondary, problems at linebacker. They can't tackle. 47:27 It lo- I, I don't even know why we talk about Matt Eberflus like he's somebody who's ever accomplished anything in his life. I don't understand that, but, like, the, the, that defense is terrible. Let's move on. 47:41 Who are the Steelers? What is the clear-cut team to beat in the AFC North? And you look at their remaining schedule, 493, uh, remaining strength of schedule is the winning percentage there. 47:53 Um, they're 20th in the NFL in terms of their remaining schedule. Uh, but it- Mm-hmm... is the toughest among their division opponents. 48:01 But I just, I, I have a really hard time seeing any of those teams in the division knocking them off, barring some sort of Aaron Rodgers calamity. I, I think they're good enough to go 48:12 10 and seven with, with Aaron Rodgers the way he's playing. I mean, the, not every team you're gonna play is gonna be as loaded as the Packers are. 48:20 Um, not every team is gonna be as motivated to rub your nose in it as Green Bay was for some reason. You wrote about the- [laughs]... divorce that never ends. You had the columnist- [laughs]... on Monday in walkthrough. 48:31 Uh, they clearly wanted to send a message, but I just, I, I look at the Steelers, and it just feels like tried-and-true formula, played decent enough on defense, and they're gonna find a way to win. 48:41 They're, like, 23rd on defense per DVOA, and their offense is, I, I don't know how to describe theTom Fuller. 48:52 Uh, th- this is, now I, I, I, I hesitate to use the word fraud because of what you said and what's going on in their division, but this is a team that if you tell me they're going to win the division at 8-8-1, I'll be like, "Yeah, sure. 49:04 Congratulations on another non-losing season." 49:06 The team you have to worry about, the team that you usually we're talking about but you've quietly overlooked, are the Baltimore Ravens, whose upcoming schedule includes the Miami Dolphins, the Minnesota Vikings with J.J. 49:18 McCarthy or possibly Jameis Winston or possibly the ghost of Ryan Tannehill at quarterback, the Browns, the Jets, the Bengals, who knows who's at quarterback by then, and then they're facing the Steelers late in the season. 49:31 Lamar Jackson I think is actually back. I don't know. They said he's, was a participant in practice. That means he was, was at least within 10 miles of the facility, right? 49:40 He was at least in the woods somewhere on the way to the facility, right? [laughs] Of course. I mean, he was at least in the zip code- Yeah... compared to what they said last week. 49:47 Yeah, he was in that weird little woods behind the facility. That's a whole other story, but those are, are real. 49:51 Um, I think the Ravens could actually snipe this opportunity from the Steelers 'cause I don't think the Steelers are any good. I, I'm gonna just say to the, uh, the Substack AI machine, please don't clip this. 50:05 Please don't clip what I'm about to say because it's gonna make me a Hall of Fame candidate for, uh, old takes exposed. The Ravens are still dead. They're dead. They're dead, they're dead, they're dead. Okay, okay. 50:16 O- okay? Because what you didn't mention is the fact that they still have to play the Packers. Mm-hmm. They still have to play the Patriots. Yeah. 50:23 So what this is going to come down to is a healthy Lamar Jackson making the difference to sweep the Steelers. They're gonna have to beat the Steelers twice, right? That's... 50:32 Y- you, you, you, you, you stack division wins that way. They're clearly the biggest hurdle within the division. 50:38 Um, you know, the, the NFL media playoff standings give them a 57% chance to make the playoffs, which is seventh-best odds on that side of the bracket. Mm-hmm. 50:47 So the, uh, I, I still think that they're dead because then they've created a situation where they have next to no margin for error. But if Lamar Jackson plays at an MVP level and they do get in- Yeah... 51:00 g- g- give them the MVP and throw me, g- give me a, a brown jacket for, for this take. While we're not clipping things, Ravens are gonna kick the shit out of the Patriots. [laughs] Yeah. 51:11 They're gonna kick the- You need that. You need [laughs]... They're gonna kick the living shit out of the Patriots. 51:17 The reality check is gonna be giant, like a novelty check, like the old Ed McMahon, uh, uh, Publisher's Clearing House check, okay? 51:25 So, but, but, but we're going to learn more, and, and, and right now the Ravens are coming up on a Patriots-worthy schedule, so we'll see how that goes. 51:33 But hey, I think we've covered, now we, we had the Ravens on the, uh, on the outline when we did them. But here, here, here, here, here, here's the problem with the Ravens. Yeah. 51:40 Roddick Washington's still on injured reserve. Yeah. Uh, Nnamdi Maduolke out for the year. Tavarius Robinson on injured reserve. Brovo Cohen, injured reserve. Uh, T.J. Tampa questionable. Edarius Washington out. 51:50 Desean Isaac, injured reserve. Nate Wiggins is back, and that's fine. Yeah. It just seems like there's a lot of, like, Detroit Lions caliber injury issues going on here. 52:00 You, you named, you named like- These guys are gonna have to get back... you named like 2.2 people that a- people actually care about on that list, by the way. Uh, uh, uh, Hamilton's off the list, okay? 52:09 Uh, uh, Ricard is off the list. Mark Andrews isn't hurt anymore. S- we have to watch out for Ronny, Ronnie Stanley. That's a big one. Again, we, we gonna pretend we know what's going on with Lamar Jackson. 52:20 I don't think it's that big an issue, and I think that the ones you mentioned, like Maduolke obviously a big, uh, a big issue, they can overcome those 'cause they've overcome those in years past. 52:28 Those are just, like, the injury-level injuries. That's- So, so we sit here on October 28th, and then we're in the safe space, in the tree of trust. You, do, you, you think that the, the Ravens win the division? 52:41 I think the Ravens win the division. Okay. All right. The Steel- the Steelers are breaking my brain with the way they had these handful of weird wins. A- and they have a Patriots win. That's good. 52:52 The Patriots weren't really the Patriots yet in week two, so. For sure. Uh- Or week three... let's move ahead now to the, uh, the Circle Game. What do you got? Yes. What did I put? 53:01 Oh, I, by the way, w- I put a rule on that thing. There is a rule, yes. So the rule is for the Circle Game, neither of us can pick the Bills versus Chiefs mega clash. Yes. We all know that one's coming. 53:15 We all know it's awesome. So I'm going to go with Vikings, Lions, 'cause I need to see J.J. McCarthy. I've been waiting for this McCarthy. Yeah, I saw him twice in, like, uh, night games at the beginning of the season. 53:28 He was very wobbly. Now we've had, like, two months where he's been hidden in the skunk works. 53:33 I need to, I need to have a total vibe check on the Vikings organization with all the things that have been going on this week. I need to see it. This is the, the game they gotta win. This is the game that matters. 53:43 I don't think the Lions have anything to worry about right now, but I need to see what happens in this game. What do you got? Will you get J.J. McCarthy, or are they gonna jam a Max Brosner-sized peg into a J.J. 53:55 McCarthy-sized hole and drive home this soft benching theory? First of all, hashtag phrasing. Second of all, um, if so, I don't wanna hear the word J.J. McCarthy again in my life. Ever. 54:10 It is be so far beyond over if Max Brosner goes out there and we hear about some sort of little mini complication or, you know, for the good of the long-term health of the organization. You'd be lying, lying, lying. 54:24 Either you have given up on the kid, or, and I hate to bring this up, the kid has given up on himself already. No. What do you got? Talking to Heinze before we get to my Circle Game. 54:33 I'm usually a Tanior stan, but he's crazy about them Ravens. He's crazy about the Ravens? You are. He's calling you crazy. He's saying you're crazy about the Ravens. Uh, bla- blame Aaron Shots. Blame Aaron Shots. 54:45 He's like, he's, like, in my ear with the DVOA ratings and the projections a- and all that stuff, but the, it's, it's, the Steelers have broke me. 54:54 The fourth quarter on Sunday night broke meIn terms of how bad that team looked, and it looked like, yeah, we've ran out of all of our goofy crap for Aaron Rodgers. We ran out of the goofy crap. 55:03 We have to actually play football now. No more 58-yard field goals. We got all of them, and we, and we can't. That, that's where I'm at. So just All right, circle a game for me. Uh, Colts-Steelers. 55:14 Not, not, not to bring more Pittsburgh into this conversation. 55:17 Uh, but, but Tucker Kraft leads all tight ends in yards after the catch according to FTN Fantasy, entered the other night at averaging 9.1 yards after the catch per reception. 55:27 Had 131 of them against the Pittsburgh Steelers. You know who's second in that category? Who's that? Tyler Warren from- Penn State University Yes, sir. They all go up against the Yak Prince, Tyler Warren. 55:43 If Tucker Kraft is the Yak King, he burned that Steelers defense. Tyler Warren gets his crack at them. I want to see if the Steelers defense can rise to the occasion against the best team, um, in football right now. 55:55 I want to see if Daniel Jones can e- exploit that defense the way that Jordan Love did last week. Um, I'm not gonna say it would be a signature win because the Steelers defense has left a ton to be desired. Mm-hmm. 56:07 But it'd be a conference win against a playoff caliber opponent. It's two teams currently leading their division. Uh, to me, it, it, it's the second most fascinating game on the schedule. 56:18 It is a really good threat assessment for both of these teams, 'cause you get another hurdle that is not the Titans for the Colts to clear, and we get another look at a medium difficult to difficult or very difficult game for the Steelers. 56:29 I am a little worried I bollixed that throw on the Tyler Warren. I wanna redo that. So thr- you do the Tyler Warren and throw to me, and let, and let's see if we can get this right. All right, Tyler Warren from? We are. 56:43 Penn State. See, that way you- [laughs]... you get to do the Penn State, 'cause I don't give a crap about Penn State. 56:50 They- Dude, they're g- they're gonna get a s- they're gonna get a 60 Burger hung on them on, in Columbus on Saturday. It's not gonna be pleasant. Crap. Maybe I'll go to a, may- maybe I'll go to a pumpkin patch. 56:58 [laughs] You'll be hanging around the pumpkin patch with Linus, uh, your, with your kids and Linus waiting for the Great Pumpkin instead of waiting for, uh, the 60 Burger, the great Buckeye coming to get you. 57:09 Yeah, uh, the Colts schedule, and I, I, they're, they're, they're steamrolling teams for righ- rightfully so. Yes. But the wins, win over Miami. Denver's a great win. Win over Tennessee, meh. 57:20 Lost to the Char- lost to the Rams. Win over the, the Raiders in blowout fashion. Win over the Cardinals in close fashion. Win over the Chargers, great win. Yeah. Win over the Titans in blowout fashion. 57:33 Um, th- th- they're the best point differential. They're creating takeaways. Yeah. They're doing everything you need to do. They're checking boxes. How, how real are they? I, uh, this is the argument. 57:42 I mean, obviously they're a playoff team because they're already there. They're already, like, 75% of the way there. You mention those teams, your big wins are the Broncos leverage game, which is like, eh. 57:53 Chargers, that's a convincing win, although they had a bunch of injuries. And then you're like, ah, and then you got the next biggest one is the Cardinals with Jacoby Brissett. 58:02 We, we need to know, and you look at the second half of that, uh, schedule, we will know more. But we do learn a lot, because again, the Steelers, I, I'm like, I, they broke me. They find ways to win these games. 58:12 They trip up opponents like this, okay? Ro- Rodgers is not complete chopped li- liver. T.J. Watt and these other guys are out there. Tomlin manufactures these type of wins. Let's see if it happens on Sunday. 58:23 Yeah, they're playing on that, uh, municipal dog track of a golf course they call Acrisure Stadium's field. Brr. Ugh. It, it's outdoors, so maybe that slows them down a little bit, but Jonathan Taylor's awesome. 58:32 Hey, what do we have coming up on the Two Deep Zone? Mailbag, and there are so many questions. Guys, I'm gonna be answering a lot of Eagles questions. Gonna be talking about Colt skepticism, Patriots skepticism. 58:42 I got some pushback from readers who think I might be a little down on these fraudulent teams that are utterly fraudulent and frauds. I don't know why people think I'm down on them. I don't, you know. 58:52 But anyway, so much to talk about. There's gonna be two or three mailbags this week. What do you got coming up? Wow, two or three, awesome. 58:58 We're gonna throw a fourth one onto that mailbag fire on Friday with the weekly mailbag from me. Uh- Yeah... also working on a couple things. 59:04 Uh, uh, cr- continuously working the phones, trying to come up with dribs and drabs of, uh, trade deadline speculation, trying to hear what we can hear. 59:12 And, uh, I'm not sure if it'll be out by the end of this week, but definitely early next week, something a little bit longer form on the Cowboys defense, trying to get to the root of the problem. Nice. Is it personnel? 59:22 Is it Eberflus? Is it all of it? Talking to scouts, coaches, former players. Uh, excited about that project, and it, it might be this week, might be early next. Wonderful. Cowboys fans will love to hate it. 59:35 Yes, and everybody else will probably just love it. He's Mike Tanier. Follow him on Blue Sky, @miketanie. Make sure you subscribe to the Two Deep Zone on Substack. You have to check out the walkthrough every Monday. 59:45 It's mandatory reading. I get it with my cold, my pumpkin cold brew on the nice chilly fall mornings, and sip the cold brew, read the walkthrough. 59:54 Uh, you subscribe on the Apple Podcast store to the Between the Hash Marks podcast. Check it out on my YouTube channel, @mattlombardo975. You can subscribe to Between the Hash Marks on Substack as well. 1:00:04 Uh, we have over 50 people in the room. Was a lot of fun interacting with everybody today. Thanks for everybody for joining us. Uh, Mike, have a great week. 1:00:13 We'll talk to you next week with some real trade deadline news to sink our teeth into. It's the great Buckeye Charlie Brown.
