Transcript 0:01 All right, all right. Welcome on in to another action-packed and live edition of the Between the Hash Marks podcast. 0:07 As always, I'm Matt Lombardo, joined by my friend, colleague, mentor, the purveyor of the Too Deep Zone, Mike Tanier is here. And Michael, as has been the case the last couple of weeks, we actually have some news- Yes... 0:19 to sink our teeth into on this podcast. What a great feeling here with training camp well underway. What a great feeling to get the news 20 minutes early rather than 20 minutes late when you run a podcast. 0:30 And we're talking about the shocking, shocking developments out of Eagan, Minnesota, where the Minnesota Vikings have chosen a starting quarterback. Are you shocked? I am not at all shocked. I am not at all surprised. 0:42 If I am mildly shocked about anything, to mimic the meme, it's that Kevin O'Connell actually ended the charade for the public a couple of weeks after he ended the charade with his team. And we'll get into that. 0:56 We'll get into what this means for the Vikings, what it means for the division. But a little bit of housekeeping for you. If you enjoy the podcast, please go ahead and subscribe in the Apple Podcast store. 1:04 Leave us those five-star ratings and reviews. They really do help grow the show. It makes us easier to find in the algorithm, boops- boosts us up the rankings and all of those things. 1:13 You can check us out on iHeartRadio, subscribe there. Subscribe on your Alexa app and Amazon Music, and of course, check out and subscribe to my YouTube channel @MattLombardo975. 1:22 And you know, Mike, we're gonna get into the quarterback controversies and quarterback position battles, but I just need to put a pin in this right here. Yeah. That your column on Monday- Mm-hmm... 1:33 pointing out what was going on in Minnesota- Yeah... the state of the quarterback competition, in air quotes, in Cleveland, was one of the most thorough pieces of football journalism that I've read this summer. 1:45 It was great. It was insightful. Uh, it was just sarcastic enough that I knew- [laughs]... that it came from you. It was terrific. 1:51 So if you enjoy that kind of coverage, please go ahead and subscribe to the Too Deep Zone, and you can subscribe at betweenthehashmarks.com as well if you enjoy my work and my brand of reporting and the features and insights and all those things. 2:03 But, uh, yeah, they, they... At least one head coach- Yeah... came to his senses today, Mike, and ended the quarterback competition probably about when it should have ended, uh, on any normal timeline. 2:15 Yeah, you're absolutely right. 2:16 The way Kevin O'Connell had been speaking for weeks, going back to minicamp, it wa- he was signaling, he was signaling through sources, he was saying it directly that they were gonna run the clock on this, that we wouldn't find out until, like, the end of August, that we'd go through all three pre- preseason games. 2:31 And increasingly, as the weeks went on, it became more and more obvious the thing that was obvious the moment the Vikings, uh, selected, uh, y- uh, acquired Kyler Murray, that he was going to be the starter, and that everything else was this sort of pantomime of going through due diligence and all that. 2:47 Uh, instead of doing that before the first preseason game, which is, uh, Saturday afternoon, made the decision, and, uh, it came on the backs of several practices in a row where either Murray won the practices or, based on what I'm hearing out of Eagan, the defense won the practices, and it doesn't matter who the quarterbacks are, 'cause both of them aren't that good, but Kyler is still the better choice. 3:06 Oh, no doubt about it, and I've covered the league for now 15 going on 16 seasons, and I've been through enough of these as a beat reporter, whether it was for the Giants or the- Mm-hmm... 3:16 Eagles back when it was Carson Wentz against Sam Bradford. Yeah. You always listen to what the coach does, not what the coach says- Mm-hmm. Yep... during training camp. 3:26 And you know, we both wrote about this in our Monday columns, um, according to Andrew Kramer of the Star Tribune- Mm... as of last week, it was like middle of last week- Mm-hmm... 3:36 Kyler Murray had already taken 66% of the first team snaps. Right. And he took 18 of 25 first team reps in a single practice. So to me, uh, the former beat writer in me- Yeah... 3:48 my spidey sense started tingling at that moment that, hey, no matter if Kevin O'Connell sits and spends five minutes at the podium espousing the virtues of J.J. 3:57 McCarthy, if he's giving 66% of the snaps to Kyler Murray- [laughs]... Murray's gonna be the guy, and it's about time we call game here, and today they finally did. That's it. 4:06 I would see, uh, Andrew's reports daily, and that kept happening. It's like more reports are in, and, like, 25 more starters reps for Murray, 6 for, uh, J.J. McCarthy. 4:15 And then, you know, in my piece, there was one of the other, uh, local beats there who tells the story of during installs, when Kyler Murray's doing installs, he's out there, uh, you know, doing screen passes and running things and, and running everything, and then when it was McCarthy's time to do the install, O'Connell came in and kinda took over. 4:33 Kinda like when my kids were learning how to drive, and we'd get close to the h- "I need you to pull over now. We're getting close to the highway. 4:38 I'm going to take over for a while, and you can take back over," that's what, uh, that, that, that's what O'Connell was doing with McCarthy, which, uh, if that was a rookie, it wouldn't have been that big a deal. 4:47 That's your third-year vet who started a bunch of games last year and was supposed to be your quarterback of the future. That was another signal that this was coming, that this was imminent. 4:55 And, and there are a lot of ways that you can read into this and what it means for the Vikings on the field, right? And what Kyler Murray adds with his athleticism, his escapability. Yeah. 5:06 W- we might actually see that vertical arm strength matter with Justin Jefferson, everything that happens- Yeah... on the field. But if we wanna go, like, deep insider baseball here- Mm-hmm... 5:15 th- this almost, like, screams into the bullhorn from Kevin O'Connell, "I did not draft J.J. McCarthy." [laughs] "He was not my guy." Because if J.J. 5:24 McCarthy was the guy that Kevin O'Connell pounded the table for- Yeah... this might have gone through August. They might have given him every chance to, to win this job, every chance to be the starting quarterback. 5:36 This tells me this was a Kwesi pick, and maybe the fact that this blew up in their face so significantly last season- Mm-hmm... that J.J. was so far away from being ready or being competent, that maybe drafting, uh, J.J. 5:49 McCarthy was one of the main reasons Kwesi was fired in Mobile during Senior Bowl week. That's what everyone wants you to believe, and once the guy's fired- He, you can throw everything into his inbox. 6:01 All, all the mistakes- Yeah... were in his inbox. Success has a thousand fathers, failure's an orphan. 6:06 I don't know who's what, but I think Kevin O'Connell has definitely divorced himself from any McCarthy, uh, eh, you know, like last year we were hearing, oh, you know, behind the scenes, like, a unbelievable work ethic, preparation, while McCarthy is rehabbing the injuries, he's- Yeah... 6:21 learning so much from O'Connell. Now it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, you know what? Barry gives us the best chance to win, so see you later. Um, and that, so that, that's the end of that controversy. 6:30 I think we're reaching the end of the Falcons controversy 'cause Michael Penix can't actually participate in regular drills right now, and we're left with the Brown stinker, which I think is just going to continue on and be a lot of lying and misrepresentation and ickiness for, like, days to come. 6:47 Yeah, and that's one where, you know, the defense looks like it has the chance to be elite, has the chance to- Yeah... throw its weight around as it has in years past. 6:54 And I, I, I just can't get jazzed up about that situation. When you're- Yeah... 6:59 looking at Shedeur Sanders, who everybody inside the league viewed so much differently as a prospect than fans and analysts did going into the draft. Mm-hmm. You have Dylan Gabriel hanging around the quarterback room. 7:11 Mm-hmm. A- and you have Deshaun Watson, who, as you wrote in the column, ha- has been basically irrelevant for the last four or five years, at least from a football standpoint. I, I just can't get amped up. 7:24 And, and I love that you dedicated so much space to it in the column, and you called it for what it was. I just can't get all in on the Browns quarterback battle really mattering. 7:33 W- a- and we talked about, and we're gonna talk later about your trip to camp and all the things that you see when you're at camp that you don't see when you're out here in the ether, when you're sitting- Yes... 7:41 at your desk like I am right now. 7:43 And, uh, like, everything I, I reported is on the backs of people who are in Berea, Ohio, or talking to people who are in Berea, Ohio, every day, all the local beat writers, reporters, et cetera. 7:54 And you know, they'll say one thing in terms of, "Well, this is how I think it's going to go," or, "Here's what the coach said," and then you'll get, like, just straight lines like, "Watson has at least looked like he kinda understands the basics twice in the last three days." 8:08 And you realize this isn't really a competition, this is the lesser of two evils, and that the, it looks like the finger is on the scale a little bit. 8:16 Well, you know, Watson is w- quarter billion dollar investment, they're trying to amortize the losses, et cetera, et cetera. 8:22 Schefter is out there saying, "Well, you know, he's the veteran," and they start their season on the road, all this other stuff. There's no reason to get enthusiastic. 8:29 You can get enthusiastic about the Vikings 'cause you can look at Flores' defense, Justin Jefferson, Addison. You've seen this team win games with Sam Darnold, et cetera. 8:37 Oh yeah, they could suddenly blow up with a competent quarterback, win 11, 12 games. They've done it several [laughs] times in the past. Browns are the Browns. 8:45 Y- uh, you know, not, w- without Miles Garrett, I don't see that happening. With a offense full of rookies and a rebuilt line, I don't see that happening. 8:52 It's now just a weird rubbernecker thing to keep an eye on how bad it's gonna be. And in that division where the Bengals made significant resources to make sure that their- Right... 9:01 defense is better, where the Steelers are the Steelers, and you have, you know, Cam Hayward and TJ Watt, and you brought in some reinforcements on the back end of the defense to bolster a secondary that took its lumps last year. 9:13 The Ravens are the Ravens. And no matter how good or mediocre at best that that Browns defense is- Mm-hmm... it's gonna be difficult for that offense in, in those division games at the very least. 9:24 No, and they had a good defense in the last couple years. And yes, one year they did pull it together behind Joe Flacco and get to the playoffs, and, like, 10 weird things happened. 9:33 Doesn't look like that's gonna be the case this year. By the way, one of the other bits of news, bits of news come out Tuesday afternoon before the first preseason game. 9:40 Joe Burrow and the starters are playing on, uh, Friday night, I think. Friday, yep. Fr- Friday night for the Bengals against the Lions. 9:46 Uh, last year, when the Bengals star- started their starters in the preseason, uh, Burrow threw two touchdown passes in the first game. 9:54 So if you wanna show up and see, like, the whiz bang, oh my gosh, it's Chase, it's Higgins, Dexter Lawrence will play, apparently it's Burrow, you'll probably [laughs] see that against the Lions' third stringer. 10:06 So, uh, it doesn't mean much, but if you wanna see a little fireworks display, I think that's gonna happen. Yeah, Joe Burrow loves playing in the preseason. He went to Zach Taylor last year and- Yeah... 10:14 lobbied to get those first team reps to play a quarter, play a half, play in these meaningless exhibition games. Mm-hmm. But, you know, it, it all comes down to can you stay healthy in the regular season? 10:24 And, you know, I, I'm not big on the preseason football. Like, I'll, I'll, I'll watch, uh, 'cause I'm a sicko, I'll watch, like- Yeah... 10:30 uh, you check in on the NFL Network and see which games are being streamed or the live look-ins, but then I'll go and I'll, I'll, like, read a book or something. I, I, I just have- Right... 10:38 trouble diving into preseason games. But getting to see Joe Burrow and those offense put on some fireworks, it, it's like a little appetizer for the regular season. It's an appetizer for- Yes... 10:49 what we're gonna see in about a month. Yes, and you made the appetizer sicko fingers with it. Yeah, yeah, that is what it is. Like, like, enjoy it. 10:56 You want to see what it looks like for real, and th- and those guys will give you that opportunity, and that will be fun, and don't read too much into it. 11:02 You know, remember, uh, Burrow had two starts last year, and the second one- Yeah... the Commanders beat the daylights out of him- [laughs]... and Taylor left him in the game. Yeah. Which was crazy. 11:10 And of course, Burrow was hurt by week two. You don't wanna say one caused the other. But it's like, try to find the happy medium, Zach Taylor. You've only been coaching, uh, this team for, like, nine years. 11:19 Can you figure out the difference between no one even goes near the field, and then you start the season 0 and 2, and the starters play like it's, like, 1981, and, like, they have to play- Yeah... 11:28 through, like, four preseason games and all, and then everybody's hurt at the end. There's probably a balance somewhere in between you can find. 11:34 And that this is happening in the backdrop of an era where coaches will tell you at the podium, and general managers will whisper to you and tell you in text messages, how much they value joint practices- Yes... 11:47 more than the pre-season games. Yeah. 11:49 That if coaches could just have a week of joint practices and not even play the games, and not even have that film go out to all 32 teams from the games, they would sign up for that at every chance they can get. Yeah. 12:01 It, it's very interesting that the Bengals take this approach, and what's even more telling, is that today apparently, in Florham Park- Yeah... 12:08 Geno Smith was intercepted not once, not twice, but three times by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in Jets-Bucs joint practices. 12:17 And listen, I, I, I kind of fell for the, the Jets enthusiasm because of all the assets and all the draft picks and everything they had at their disposal last off season, and what they did in March and April. 12:29 Man, i- if you're trotting Geno Smith out there and he's throwing three... He's supposed to be the adult in the room of the quarterbacks. Right. Like, he's supposed to be the upgrade over Cade Kupczyk. 12:38 Like, if he's throwing three picks in joint practices, I, I don't know man, it just seems like you're not going to make enough progress. And then I don't want to overreact here to joint practices. Yeah. 12:47 I don't want to overreact. But if he's throwing [laughs] three picks on the practice field, w- how much hope do we give Aaron Glenn of lasting three weeks? [laughs] Not much. How did backup Cade Kupczyk do? 12:59 [laughs] I, I, I'd have to ask around on that, because I w- Yeah... I wasn't at the... [laughs] Right. We weren't, we were not there, obviously. We, we'll, we'll get s- things like that. 13:06 I, I, I just, I hear the name Cade Kupczyk, and it's just like, "No. No. Kupczyk. No, no." No. [laughs] That's like a Mel Brooks character. That is not a person. 13:17 And I've, I saw him at Clemson, I saw him when he had his good games at Clemson. I'm aware who he is. But that's what's going on. Uh, th- for the Jets, I have been keeping track of a couple things. 13:25 David Bailey, the edge rusher, looked amazing, but he's hurt. Yep. He's hurt. Uh, Kenyon Sadik, uh, Sadi- Sadig, the tight end, uh, we're pretty excited about him. 13:34 He's hurt, he has a hernia situation that, a surgery they had in the off season. And we haven't heard much from Omar Cooper. 13:41 So like here's your three first round picks, two injured guys, and a guy who's kind of just like, "Oh yeah, he's here, he's fine. 13:46 Let's tell, let's tell you more about Cade Kupczyk and how he's been doing, and how Geno Smith is throwing interceptions." I do love seeing joint practice information. I saw a bunch of news coming out of- Yeah... 13:55 Foxborough, where the Colts and the Patriots were having their joint practices. Um, I think the Lions are having a joint practice. I think I saw that. With the Bengals. They are, yes. Yeah. 14:04 And what, what, what's really interesting is, the, you talk to these executives, and th- they'll use these joint practices because you get to tape them. Yeah. You, you, uh- Yeah... 14:13 it's just like a game where like if it's game film, it goes out to all 32 teams. But if you're having a joint practice, you get that practice tape. Yeah. 14:21 So in the next two weeks, when you're looking to, you know, upgrade the bottom of your roster and decide who you're gonna cut to not make the 53, you get to look at- Right... you know, the Buccaneers, if you're the Jets. 14:32 You get to look at the Buccaneers' bottom of their players that you had in your building practicing against you. You get to like evaluate those dudes, and they get to evaluate your dudes. 14:40 And you know, we're gonna talk later on about the, the situation with the Commanders. It wouldn't shock me if, if you see some of these guys who are injured- Mm-hmm... 14:49 that in two, three weeks, guys that get cut by the Dolphins might wind up claimed by the Commanders because of something they saw on the practice field in these joint practice sessions. Right. 14:59 And you and I have attended them, and, and we've seen it where, where it's like, yeah, the one against the one cornerbacks get to do one on ones for a while. And seven on sevens for a while. Yeah. 15:06 So they get a bunch of reps. And the three against the three, so they get to size each other up a little bit. And they're not familiar with each other, and they haven't been doing this since April. 15:15 And so all these things line up. I wish that more of that was televised. And I'm not talking about the NFL Network doing a look in and showing a highlight or something like that. Put it on. Put it on. Yeah. 15:26 You're taping it, it doesn't have to be super great, but when the sevens and the 11s are on, put it on TV, put it on NFL Plus. 15:31 We spend a lot of money for NFL Plus, NFL Pro, so we can look at it as well so we get a better sense of it, so that when the time comes, when there's pre-season games, it's not like, "Oh, he took three snaps in the pre-season game, let's try to break that down," but we heard all these great things from the coaches about how good he was in joint practice. 15:48 Yeah, even if you don't give us the full 11 on 11, even if you wanna protect the, the game film where you're running your plays and- Yeah... 15:55 you know, you're script- you're scripted from the, from the playbook, give me the one on ones. Give me, give me the one on ones, give me the seven on sevens. 16:01 They, I, I think that that would be great, because I, I think that you can, you can tell a lot about a guy in a one-on-one situation. 16:09 You can tell a lot about a quarterback or his timing with his receivers or where you are in terms of the, the cohesion that you're trying to build in those seven on seven reps. Absolutely. 16:19 You get a lot more opportunity to evaluate these guys separately. A- and yeah, sure, you wanna protect the 11 on 11s, there's fans at these things most of the time. Yeah. You know. Yeah. 16:27 If there's fans there, then there could be somebody there with the little go glasses or whatever you call that, and they're recording your top secret, "Oh my gosh, it's a pass into the flat. 16:36 You ca- captured our secrets." There's no secrets in the NFL. Make this stuff a little bit more available. For sure. And of course, I'm back, I'm in the home office today- Yes... 16:45 off of the first leg of the training camp tour. We went out to Latrobe, and we went down to Owings Mills. We've got a look in on the Steelers, a look in on the Ravens. Um, two really interesting situations. 16:58 And, you know, we're gonna get into both kind of individually, but as I touched on in the column, like it was really interesting because Saturday in Owings Mills, they had, um, new Ravens running backs coach, uh, Kevin Faulkner at the, at the podium after Marlon Humphrey and Justice Hill and, um, the new head coach Jesse Minter. 17:17 Faulkner told a great story, that, uh, you know, he was the former, as of last season, running backs coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yeah. He obviously gets wiped out when Mike Tomlin gets fired. Right. 17:28 Um, but he interviews. He had a Zoom interview for the Ravens running back job, and they end the Zoom call, and three minutes later, Faulkner said that his phone started ringing. 17:39 It was Mike Tomlin who told him that he was just hired by the Ravens, that he aced the interview and he got the job. That's how tight Jesse Minter is with Mike Tomlin- [laughs]... 17:49 that it was Tomlin who broke the news- Right... that the Ravens were hiring [laughs] hiring a new running backs coach. That, that's one of the great reminders of what a sewing circle- 17:59 The coaching fraternity is everybody knows everybody else, everyone's texting everybody else. It's like middle school among these guys to a degree where Tomlin doesn't even wait the two hours. No. 18:10 [laughs] It's like, like let- let's let Minter tell the story. Like, nah, I gotta mock my old pal here by telling him I know more what's, what's in his mind than he is. That's amazing. 18:19 But you talked a little bit, uh, about the changes that have been going on- Yeah... since Minter, who is a, a, a bit of a Harbaugh disciple, replaced John Harbaugh down there. 18:28 Yeah, it's really interesting, and, you know, the, the word that you kept hearing from people was accountability. Yeah. And it, you know, there was one quote that really jumped off the page. 18:37 I'm standing there Saturday, and Marlon Humphrey was at the podium, and the beat writers are all, "Oh, this is probably the only time we're gonna talk to Marlon Humphrey until week one." Yeah. 18:45 Well, let's just say Marlon Humphrey emptied the clip in terms of- [laughs]... what he gave reporters at that media session. Mm. 18:52 This quote summed it up to me, because he went on and on about how quickly Jesse Minter, uh, squashes drama, doesn't let things fester, addresses things head-on. 19:02 Marlon Humphrey said, quote, "You can tell when a coach is being honest. Even though there are coaches, we're all grown men, so you know when a man's lying to you, you know when a man's telling the truth. 19:11 I think that's a big key. That's something we talk about in our room all the time. There will be no gray. It's black or it's white. There is no gray. 19:18 We can't have gray because that cau- causes confusion, and then you get color blind. So it's really good. I think how Jesse's kind of running things, I really like it," unquote. 19:27 I think that speaks as much about John Harbaugh as it does about Jesse Minter, does it not? R- remember where we're going on Thursday? Yeah, oh, I'm aware. Um, uh, 19:38 I- I'll say this, 'cause, you know, we always do the new culture story when the new coach comes in. Yeah. Okay? And it's like, well, Minter is restoring the culture from John Harbaugh in Baltimore. 19:49 Meanwhile, in New York, John Harbaugh is restoring the culture. So w- what, what happens often is that the change is good, especially the long-tenured coaches, Tomlin, Harbaugh. Th- things can get stale. Yes. 20:02 And the things that those coaches are not particularly good at or have gotten a little blind to, as you talk about being color blind, those things tend to fester and propagate and become more of a problem. 20:10 Guy like Humphries might see that. 20:12 So it's very possible that Minter can come in and say, "Boy, I'm cleaning up some mistakes" that someone like Harbaugh was, was letting slide in the past because he'd been there so many years and had no longer realized what was going on. 20:23 And that Harbaugh at the same time is going in, he's rejuvenated, he's refreshed. 20:26 He realizes, "Oh my goodness, I, I, I let some, some things slide back there," or, "Look at all the things that were let slide by the last three goofballs that were here that I would never have, uh, let go," and that these changes are good. 20:38 W- Andy Reid was the fine example. 20:40 When he, when he went from Philadelphia to the Chiefs, suddenly it seemed like he was a whole new coach, whereas at the same time t- the Eagles felt refreshed by having a different voice in there. 20:49 Yeah, it's kind of that tangible evidence of what a coach told me as part of the survey to look out for the Ravens, because you had a longtime head coach, a new head coach coming in, things might have gotten stale. Yeah. 21:01 I think that you're starting to see and hear the players kind of open up about what that means, what it feels like on the day-to-day basis. Right. 21:08 Justin Hill, to his credit, you know, he kind of sidestepped things and said that, you know, he wants to wait until the live bullets start flying, like when you start to play another team- Yeah... 21:17 and you're in a game situation, how do you react? Um, uh, you know, what, what happens when you're not beating up against a guy wearing your same helmet and same uniform day after day after day? What happens then? 21:28 Um, but it, but it's absolutely the honeymoon phase. Th- that- Yeah... that's just what's happening here. 21:32 Um, but it, it is interesting that you hear Humphrey talk about Jesse Minter running meetings, like position- Yeah... group meetings. Like, uh, uh, he's former defensive backs coach, so he gets it. 21:43 Defensive coordinator, so he gets it. Um, but, but the fact that your head coach is in those meetings, running the meetings from time to time, that's gonna instill the accountability right off the bat- Yeah... 21:52 'cause that's big boss at the front of the room, right? You're not gonna be- Right... slacking off or you're not going to finger point, um, a- at- Mm-hmm... 22:00 some of your teammates or at the coaches or at the scheme with big boss right there, you know? So it's just... 22:05 It's interesting to me just how different these coaches try to instill the culture right out of the chute and the impact that it could have immediately. 22:12 And on a team full of veterans that w- were generally playoff level veterans who know what they're doing, shaking things up can be a very big positive. 22:20 I don't know how helpful that is in a situation like the Jets where no one can play football. But with [laughs] Derrick Henry and Lamar Jackson and Marlon Humphrey and those guys, it's like shaking them up a little good. 22:29 It's, it's no different than you get a different editor, different boss, a different principal- Yeah... when you're a teacher, and you'll get the refreshing new thing. You're like, "Oh, this is refreshing. 22:39 I hated it when the old boss did that." Then you get the kick in the pants thing, and if you're a professional, it's like, "I just got kicked in the pants. I don't like getting kicked in the pants. 22:46 Oh, maybe I was getting complacent too. Maybe I needed that. Maybe we all need to have the spur in the saddle a little bit." Hopefully that's what Minter is bringing in Baltimore. I'm curious, uh, uh, by, by, by, uh, by, 22:58 by contrast, is, uh, McCarthy like running meetings in Pittsburgh? Uh, is he like going up there and taking on lots and lots of extra work? Is that something you've been hearing? I, I did not hear that that was going on. 23:09 Okay. No, I did not hear that. But, but what was interesting was it, it, it, it seemed like a less efficient practice. 23:16 Now, I'm, I'm just gonna put this out there that it was, it was a different setup than what they're used to. It was a different practice script- Mm-hmm... 23:23 because I was there on a day where there were thunderstorms in the area. Oh, yeah. They had to close the practice to fans, so they weren't doing as many individual drills. It was kind of a hair on fire situation. 23:33 Um, but it just didn't seem... Like last year with Mike Tomlin, it seemed there was always like run to the next drill, run to the next drill. Mm-hmm. Um, it seemed maybe a little more physical. 23:40 They did a, what they called a smack down drill, where they put the ball on the 25 yard line and you went, like moved the football. Okay. It was as live as you could be- Mm-hmm... without pads being on. 23:50 I thought that was interesting. Mm-hmm. Um, but it, it, it didn't seem like Mike McCarthy was quite as hands-on as, as Jesse Minter is down there in Baltimore. I would be shocked If he was Yeah, right? 24:01 That would be shocking. And different, uh, coaches have different practice styles. We saw Chip Kelly practices, which were ba-bump, ba-bump, ba-bump, ba-bump, ba-bump, ba-bump. 24:08 Sometimes that translated into success, sometimes not. Jason Garrett ran incredibly sharp practices, like that was really his thing. Everything seemed to be moving well. 24:16 It didn't change some of the other limitations Jason Garrett had, but that's a curious approach. 24:21 But you're right, if you're there in the thunderstorms and things like that, they might have had to cut things in half, cut things in quarters, shorten things, et cetera. 24:27 That could have played a factor in what was going on. Let me ask you this, did you see Aaron Rodgers play defense at all? That's gone viral. I did not [laughs]. I didn't see Aaron Rodgers on the pass rush. Okay. 24:37 I don't know if they did that just for, for the fans at that, like, night practice they had- Right... a day or two after I was there. Um, but, you know, you look at the, the, the Steelers right now, and 24:49 I think that the biggest uncertainty is Quarterback 2, right? 'Cause you know Aaron Rodgers- Right... is the guy, and the timing looks great, and we'll get into a couple of the receivers who are breaking out. 24:58 But, you know, Aller, I think he has a leg up in that Quarterback 2 competition, had a really nice timing throw over the middle in seven-on-sevens where it just popped, and it was like, "Oh, wow, okay," like, that- th- that, that's the type of throw you wanna see a guy make in traffic in a game situation. 25:14 Will Howard, by contrast, um- Mm-hmm... was intercepted three times. Oh. And linebacker Peyton Wilson pulled down two of the interceptions, um, it, w- when I was there. Okay. 25:24 So Wilson found himself around the ball a lot. Okay. It just ha- so happened that Will Howard was very generous in, in throwing the ball his direction. This, this was Quarterback 3, really, 'cause Rudolph is still there. 25:34 True, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's still, it's still very heated. It's a chance to be on that roster. 25:39 Obviously, everyone's backing up a 48-year-old goofball of a man here, so they could wind up on the field, but it's exciting to hear that, that Ha- that Aller is doing pretty well. What else do you have coming up? 25:49 Yeah, I, I, I think he is, I think he is the leg up there. I, I, I just... It's, from, from where... Then you watch the training camp videos that fans are posting- Yeah... 25:56 and it's like, you, you can see some momentum building. Um, but, you know, you, you look at these two, the, the biggest storylines to me are the young- Yeah... wide receivers who are- Yeah... 26:06 just exploding in both camps. Right. You wrote about Bernard, and we talked about Bernard last week. Uh, J- what's his first name? I'm draw- I'm- Jeremy. Jeremy Bernard. 26:14 Jeremy Bernard, and then, uh, Jakobi Lane in Baltimore. I guess let's start with Bernard, 'cause we're still in Pittsburgh. We talked about him before. Seems to me like, like, the great possession receiver. 26:24 Is that what you saw when you were there? Yeah, just a guy who has a knack for getting open, and it- Mm-hmm... 26:29 just seems like the ball found him, whe- whether it was, you know, Aaron Rodgers, and he got a couple of reps with the first team, whether- Right... it was Aller or Rudolph or Will Howard. 26:39 Th- these quarterbacks trust him already, which is really- Right... 26:42 interesting for a young receiver to be a target monster in training camp, in a camp where you have DK Metcalf and Michael Pittman at the top of the depth chart, who you're trying to work out timing with and get a feel for how they're gonna work. 26:55 Here's Jeremy Bernard elbowing his way- [laughs]... into the target share, into the rotation, and Michael Pittman Jr. called him a shifty player, and he's always- Uh-huh... 27:04 finding ways to get open, and, you know, he's 200 pounds, but he plays faster than he looks. And Asante Samuel Jr. 27:10 told me after practice that he thought that Bernard, if he keeps up this level like he's shown in training camp, he's gonna contribute meaningful plays during the season this year as a rookie. 27:20 So there's a lot of buzz about his ability to find ways to get open and then make big catches when the ball comes his way. And he was the guy who I know took some Wildcat snaps last year at, in college. 27:32 Uh, somebody who would be used, like, oh, go into the backfield, run the reverse, do all these other little things. So you could see stuff like that there. 27:39 If Arthur Smith was there, I would think, "Oh, guaranteed they're gonna do some weird thing where Bernard's gonna be in the backfield." [laughs] Maybe the goal line tush push guy or something like that. 27:48 Very big contrast to Jakobi Lane, and it's not just you, by the way, who's talking about Jakobi Lane. It is Jakobi Lane season in Owings Mills, Maryland right now. 27:56 This is a go deep, up the sidelines, jump high, rip ball away from defender type of receiver. That's what he was at USC. Sounds like that's what he is in Ravens camp. 28:06 You look at this guy walking on the field, and Jakobi Ga- Jakobi Lane looks like your prototypical number one wide receiver. He just- Ooh... he looks the part, first of all. 28:14 Big long arms, lanky, tall, big target for the quarterback, and then he'll make a kind of catch along the sideline in a seven-on-seven drill, where he goes against his body, comes back, makes a leaping one-handed catch, comes down and gets both feet inbounds, down. 28:31 Mm-hmm. And it's like, he'll make a circus catch like that. He'll break free down the sideline, deep downfield. Nate Wiggins draped on him one-on-one in coverage, and he'll still make the catch for the touchdown. 28:44 Good s- good, uh, separation speed, elite hands, big catch radius, and you talk to other Ravens reporters on the sideline, and they said th- this is what it's like every day. Mm-hmm. 28:53 Every day he's making the circus catches look routine and look ordinary. The question's gonna be, can he be a volume guy? Can he be somebody- Yeah... that you can throw to six, seven, eight times per game? 29:06 Because they haven't really had that in Baltimore. It's been Zay Flowers, and we touched on it last week. Is Rashod Bateman ever gonna be a guy? And, you know- No... 29:13 what's, what's life like after Mark Andrews, and how many times- Right... do you throw to Mark Andrews at this age and this stage of his career? 29:20 But Jakobi Lane is doing it, and I think what's most impressive and why people are most excited about it is he's doing it every day against Nate Wiggins. He's doing it every day against Kyle Hamilton. Yeah. 29:29 He's doing it every day. Chiogobia Eze might not be quite on that level- No, he's-... but he's still a pretty damn good nickel cornerback. Right. 29:35 You're doing this against, you know, Pro Bowl caliber defensive backs in practice every day as a third-round rookie. Man, that, that just... Y- the, the needle has to be pointing up and to the right for him right now. 29:46 Yeah, I don't think he's gonna be a volume guy. He was not a volume guy at USC 'cause Michael Lemon was there, and he was getting a lot of that- Right... attention, and did more of the possession type of work. 29:54 You look at the deep threat guy for Lamar Jackson. Now, sometimes it's been Zay Flowers. Zay's a smaller target, and he's also nifty shifty. They went end of career Nuke Hopkins, which you got a little bit out of. 30:07 They got end of career Odell Beckham for a while. You got almost nothing out of him. It's been a while since there's been, I don't know who it was, Lamar had going up the sideline, getting the ball for him. 30:17 There was, I, it wasn't really that guy. Maybe it was Mark Andrews. I think I'm blanking on somebody. You add that, and you say that he does the Alec Pierce thing. One a game, okay? Two or three targets. Yep. Yep. 30:28 One of them's the big play, and then like a comeback route, whatever, et cetera. That really pops things open with Zay Flowers, with Derrick Henry in the backfield. 30:37 That can be enough to kinda s- supercharge that offense. Yeah, I thought it was interesting that even, you know, head coaches like to tamper down the hype and the- Yeah... excitement for guys during camp. 30:47 Minter stepped to the podium, he's like, "Yeah, man, y- we have a big enough sample size now that it's starting to look consistent." Right. "Like, this is kind of what we're thinking it is." 30:54 And he said that he had a conversation with Lamar Jackson, and he said, "Just keep throwing it to him." Right. 30:58 "Throw it to him when he's covered, throw it to him when he's wide open, throw it to him when he's not wide open. Just keep throwing him the ball." 31:05 So they're really making that concerted effort in August to develop that timing so when they step on the field for week one, he is that viable, high upside, number two wide receiver opposite of Zay Flowers. 31:18 Because as you said, this offense funnels through the running game and Derrick Henry. It funnels through Lamar Jackson, his escapability and his athleticism, making plays with his legs. Yeah. 31:28 It's been a while since they had that deep vertical threat. You add that element to it, and it just, it kinda throws open what they can be offensively in ways that maybe we haven't seen there in a, in a long, long time. 31:40 Gosh, if only someone told Jalen Hurts to just keep throwing it to A.J. Brown no matter whe- whether he's open or not. 31:46 Of course, I mean, it went pretty well a couple years ago, so we can't complain too much here in Philadelphia. Matt, I'm gonna admit right now that I have completely lost our, uh, our outline. 31:54 This might be the record for how quickly I can't find where we put our outline. Are we- That's okay... 31:59 are we done with the Philadelphia, I mean, with the, with the Baltimore and the Steelers part here, and are we ready to go on to the next segment? 32:05 Let's go on to the next segment and talk about some of the news of the week out of the nation's capital, and some good news, some disastrous news- Yeah. Yeah... for the Commanders. 32:15 Um, we'll start with the good and end with the bad so that we can, Commanders fans can leave feeling terrible instead of- [laughs]... feeling terrible and be built back up. Um, but you know, Stefon Diggs signs- Yeah... 32:26 last week with the Commanders, a move you and I called. Yeah. We were all over this on the podcast last week. Great fit. Him and Terry McLaurin actually form a competent baseline- Yeah... receiver duo for Jayden Daniels. 32:40 Yeah. And what I like about this move is Drake May last season had a 113.9 passer rating when targeting Stefon Diggs, and his average depth of target was 8.7 yards. Yeah. 32:50 So reliable, you know, catch radius, can stretch- Yeah... the field just enough. 32:55 So when you have Jayden Daniels, a young quarterback entering year three, who they tried e- every which way to RG4 him last year- [laughs]... you get him that kind of weapon- Right... with that kind of upside, I dig it. 33:07 I, I, I dig- Yeah... Stefon Diggs in Washington. Right, and I was like, "Ooh, this is one you have to take seriously," you, everything you described. 33:14 He was the kinda guy, particularly for May, who, oh, it's third and 10, here comes the 12-yard completion. 33:19 Intermediate range, get open against tight coverage, be reliable, make those not n- not necessarily huge plays, but those steady, important chain-moving type plays. That's who he is. I think that's who he still is. 33:31 So that was a big move. 33:32 So like, o- on my do I care about the Commanders at all meter list, it was, that, that meter was really low, and then Diggs got there and it got really high, and then the next piece of news happened, and it kinda fell and rolled out into the gutter. 33:46 Yeah, a- and Diggs w- found a way to be that guy in a kinda crowded room, right? Because as much as- Yeah... 33:52 they loved running the ball with TreVeyon Henderson, as much as, you know, they, they love to force the ball into the tight ends- Yeah... you still had KeShawn Boothie, who had a bit of a- Right... 34:01 breakout explosive season last year. You still had Mack Hollins, who was that field stretcher- Yeah... get you 12, 14 yards per catch kinda guy. Mack Hollins was there last year. So Diggs was still productive. Right. 34:13 He was still that big play, reliable threat. Now you go down to Washington, where it, it's him, Terry McLaurin, and, right? Like- Yeah... he could have an even bigger role this year. And he wasn't a weirdo. 34:25 He wasn't being a weirdo, uh, about it. Not that we know about. I mean, I know he was, uh, uh, dating a variety of different famous women, and there was some problems with that. 34:33 But in the locker room and everything else like that, there was never a problem with the, "Oh, I am one of, you know, part of a committee here, and that I'm no longer being asked to go up the sideline and catch 35-yard passes. 34:43 That's someone else's role." He seemed comfortable with that. He seems comfortable with that kind of role now. Certainly he's proven he's got a year of being a normal teammate in him at this point in his career. 34:54 So all of that was very positive. Can, can we, are we getting to the negative, or are we, are we- Wait, wait, wait. One more thing. One more thing. I just, I got- Sure... I got a tweaky here. Okay. 35:02 He's also 32 years old, Stefon Diggs. Ah. So he fits right in. He fits right in. 35:07 Hey, for those of you who do not follow me on Blue Sky or do not follow the Commanders on Blue Sky, every time the Commanders sign somebody, they are 32 years old. Yeah. 35:18 Now, in Stefon Diggs' case, it's like, well, it's a great receiver who might be on the downside of his career, but like, yes, at 32 he is productive. 35:24 The number of 32-year-olds that they keep bringing in, Rivers Craycraft and, um, uh, Fabian Island of Doctor- Row... Row. Uh, and they brought in a backup offensive lineman today who's 30, but he feels like he's 32. 35:40 All of these guys are 32 years old, and the fact that it's exactly 32 is starting to freak me out. It's like a weird numerological thing, like that movie The Number 23. 35:48 It's the number 32, and it's starting to really weird me out. Yeah, a- and I was trying to workshop this theory to, to put out a post on Blue Sky, and then I just put it back in the holster 'cause I couldn't- Yeah... 35:58 I couldn't get across the finish line. I couldn't finish it, right? [laughs] Right. But like, I, I like Adam Peters a lot. I think he's a bright guy, and obviously has the track record, you know, coming from- Right... 36:08 San Francisco and all those things. But the, the collecting 32-year-olds- Yes... after all of the injury issues- Yeah... 36:16 and collecting olds in San Francisco, it's like you imported all of the bad, and not necessarily- Right... all of the good with you for, from the Bay Area. 36:26 It's like you're bringing all the guys you had, like, on a wish list that John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan said no to. You had them all- Yes... 36:34 on your little wish list, and now you're here, you're, and no one can stop me from bringing in this guy, this guy, this guy, and Quinn seems on board with all these older players as well. 36:42 Um, but I don't know where it gets you, because it continues clogging the pipeline. Now, it's one thing if these, uh, if these, uh, players are really productive, but that's not been the case. 36:52 And of course, another older player got hurt a couple days after Diggs signed. I've been trying to set this up for the last three segments. Laremy Tunsil, probably out for the s- year. 37:04 Left tackle, star left tackle who played very, very well, and was a big time signing, uh, trade acquisition last year. Trade acquisition, yeah, huge loss. 37:10 Lo- lo- I don't know that you can quantify losing Laremy Tunsil to that offense, right? Right. 37:16 Because, you know, you talk about this being the pivotal year for Jayden Daniels, you just took away an all-pro caliber offensive tackle, right? I mean, what, what do you even do there? And it- Right... 37:26 it ha- the injury happens in August, so it's not like this happened in mini camp where he had, like, a non-contact injury back in- Right... 37:33 April, and you ki- or May, and you can, you know, work the trade wire a little bit and, and try to find something. You're gonna have to, at minimum, go shopping on cut down day, right? 37:42 At least for depth, try to figure out what you're gonna do on the back end of that depth chart in a couple weeks here, right? 37:47 In the short term, uh, Brandon Coleman, who was drafted to, like, in the third round in 2024, I think he started a bunch of games there, he moves up. So you do have somebody there who has a little bit of experience. 37:59 Then you start looking at their bench right now, and I'm seeing names like, uh, Andrew Wiley, who played for years for Kansas City. Guess how old Andrew Wiley is. It's 35 and a half? No, he's 32. 38:13 [laughs] He's 33 years of age, so he is on the bench. I, I don't know if he could play that position right now. Max Scharping, who is 30, Daniel Brunskill, who they just signed, is 30. 38:23 Um- Friend of the pod, Daniel Brunskill. We've had him on a couple times. Good dude. Oh, very, very, very cool. Yeah, so he, he's there. Yeah. So he's gonna be in the mix. I don't see a... 38:31 I mean, there are solutions that are kind of, like, get by type solutions there, but you go from a position of strength, and also a position of depth, because when you had Coleman there, you say, "Well, you know, if something happens, we have a guy who can get starts. 38:43 He can also start on the right side." Now you're in a position of potential weakness, and it goes, when you trade and draft all the, excuse me, when you trade and sign all these older guys, it chokes your prospects out. 38:54 So I don't know what Coleman is. If he had gotten the start last year, maybe he develops into a pro bowl left tackle. Maybe he doesn't. Maybe he backslid because you don't get the reps and the opportunities. 39:04 Th- this is kind of part and parcel of the problem with the team. They have a guy who might be a s- partial solution there. We don't know. They don't know. 39:12 They didn't act like he was, though, when they went out and they traded for a th- then 31-year-old offensive lineman. 39:19 Yeah, and, you know, a guy, Laremy Tunsil, falls into your lap, you kinda, i- in a vacuum, you have to make that trade- Exactly, yeah... right? 39:25 In a vacuum, you have to be the guy to upgrade that position that's so important to what offenses do. But when you're stacking 32-year-olds, to your point, and then last year you're bringing in a Von Miller- Yeah... 39:36 and, you know, you still have Zach Ertz on the roster, and you still have all of these older bodies hanging around, uh, Bobby Wagner was still there a year ago. 39:44 What would you, you start to, as you said, choke out the player development- Yeah... side of it, that even if you draft well, these guys aren't getting first team reps in practice. 39:52 They're certainly not getting game reps in the regular season, and you kind of leave yourself thin because you've invested in older players rather than drafting, developing, and playing y- your own guys. 40:04 That's right, and our old friend Zach Ertz, who was still playing at a high level until he got hurt. Yeah. You bring him in, and now that's a useful player and he's doing the job. 40:11 You draft a Ben Sinnett, now you're relying on Ben Sinnett to go out there and be your starter. I don't know what he's done. I don't know what those... Were those two years productive years for him? 40:20 You don't have an answer to that. 40:21 And that kind of hurts from a salary cap and budgeting standpoint, too, 'cause a lot of those guys make a little more money, and then you don't have as much flexibility as you would have otherwise. Oh, no doubt about it. 40:31 A- and another team, another situation where it's feels like things are just going from n- not great to much worse- [laughs]... 40:39 is Micah Parsons' situation wi- with this PUP list, a- and when you expect him to return, because the, the initial thought this summer was he'll start the season on PUP. Yeah. It will be what it is. 40:51 Then you had the update that it's looking like he'll miss the first month of the season. Right. Missing the first four weeks, okay, that's understandable. The ACL tear happened in December. These things take time. 41:03 Well, well, now there's a, the, sounding like the, the optimistic timeline is week six. This just seems like it's trending in the wrong direction, doesn't it? Absolutely. 41:14 It's not, the, the timeline is not supposed to get further out as you go on. Now, I do think we reach a hard, like, I don't think he's out, out for the season or anything like that. 41:24 But when you start saying optimistic week six, and you say, well, that means there might be complications or this is going slowly, what are you getting week six, week seven, week eight out of Micah Parsons? 41:33 How many weeks is it he's coming off the bench and doing 25 snap, snap count situation? Okay. Now, elsewhere in Green Bay, Josh Jacobs is day-to-day with an injury. 41:45 Matthew Golden has a toe thing, and he's been day-to-day. Jayden Reed has also been out. I'm not sure. I think that might just all be precautionary. Starting- Savion Williams season, baby. Savion Williams reps coming. 41:56 Savion Williams, The Frog, who's like a Wildcat kind of guy, has been getting the starting reps there, you know, as expected or whatever. Bo Melton is once again in the conversation for Green Bay. 42:07 And it sounds like they have, uh, benched their guard prospect, Anthony Belton, who was penciled into one of the guard spots. 42:14 Uh, they started rotating people around, um, and, and when the rotation cleared, it was Jacob Munk in at guard at his spot, which sounds like they're not completely happy with him. 42:24 I don't know what's going on with the left tackle, et cetera, but all the things That I suggested might go wrong based on the fact that I've lived on planet Earth for 55 years, and I know how these things happen. 42:39 All those things that seem to be going wrong are going wrong. The old running back's banged up. The guy, uh, the guy who was hurt last year is hurt this year. 42:47 The guy who didn't win the starting job this year, last year, didn't just win it by promotion. You know, handing it to him didn't make him better. And who knows what's gonna play out beyond day-to-day of training camp. 43:01 But you didn't even mention this, Edrem Cooper i- is injured as well. Oh. He's dealing with an injury. A- and that, that's their play-making linebacker who they're so excited about. Yeah. 43:09 They went out and they got Zaire Franklin to drop alongside him, "Hey, see ball carrier, get ball car- uh, carrier so that we can send Edrem Cooper on exotic blitz packages, and we can freelance him in coverage. 43:21 We just need that steady, reliable force next to him." That's what Zaire Franklin's gonna be. Edrem Cooper now banged up. 43:26 And- and Mike, I- I just, before we went on the air, I looked at the first six weeks of the Packers schedule just for funsies. Like, if those are the only six games that Micah Parsons misses. 43:35 It's not that bad though, right? It's not... Oh, g- g- go through it. Well, well, at Vikings and Brian Flores, not great. Right, right. Um, at, at East Rutherford bye week, um, against the Jets. Um, Falcons- Yeah... 43:49 Falcons at home, not that bad. At Tampa could be a little bit dicey. Th- then you got Bears at Packers, and ideally that's the game you want Micah Parsons back for. Yeah. And then you get the Cowboys at home. Okay. 44:03 So you're looking at, like, three to four, like, plus up at best situations where you're going to not have on the field potentially your game-altering pass rush presence. 44:16 Suboptimal I think for, for Matt LaFleur's squad there. Yeah, the difference between four and six makes a difference. 'Cause I remember- Yeah... 44:23 when I thought it was four, looking, I was like, "Oh, they got the Jets and the Falcons in there. They're probably gonna be fine." 44:27 And now you t- put that Bears game in there, and you know, the famous thing that I heard from so many, you know, Packers experts is like, "Well, you know, uh, Caleb Williams makes this play 'cause Rashan Gary can't get to him 44:40 in that, in that game. Like, Rashan Gary is, is late getting to him." Well, now there's no Gary anymore, guys, and there's no Parsons. So good luck with Lucas Van Ness, so g- g- g- g- g- 44:50 running fast in a straight line and right past Caleb Williams. Good luck with that. And that's why I'm so ridiculously skeptical about this Packers situation, and especially the pass rush without Micah Parsons, right? 45:00 Yeah. 'Cause last year, 79 total pressures, 14 sacks. If you watch the Prime Vision feed with the overhead all 22 of that Thursday night game against the Commanders- Right... 45:10 you just see Micah Parsons being used all over the place. Right. It was like Prime Vision was made for Micah Parsons. Mm-hmm. And the impact that he made, even when he didn't get the sack, was immense. 45:20 I mean, he altered the play so many times. It had that trickle-on effect for the rest of the defense. 45:25 So now you're going into potentially the first six weeks of the season where you have not one but two division games- Yeah... against the Vikings, against the Bears. The Cowboys, that are gonna be no pushovers. 45:36 We're gonna talk about that in a moment here 'cause I have a point to make there. Yeah. But I, I'm really skeptical that you're going to be able to piece together a pass rush around Lucas Van Ness- Yes... 45:46 Baron Sorell- Mm-hmm... fourth-round rookie Denai Dennis Sutton trying to hold it down, when last season Sorell and Van Ness combined, two dudes combined for four sacks and 29 pressures all year. 45:59 And we know Jonathan Gannon is gonna have all kinds of crazy blitz concepts and rush packages. Yeah. 46:04 They're gonna have to hold on for dear life against Caleb, against Kyler Murray potentially, against that passing game in Tampa. 46:12 It just seems like this could get dicey pretty quickly the longer Micah Parsons is sidelined. We're really leaning on the... And Jonathan Gannon's gonna dial up so much stuff. 46:21 It's like, yes, 'cause the Cardinals the last couple years, all we saw was nonstop heroics from those defenses that he put together. Sure, okay, fine. Uh, but like, hey, good news out of Green Bay. 46:31 Tucker Kraft is healthy. Yeah, that's good. In fact, every video of, the good news video I see out of the Green Bay Packers is that Tucker Kraft is healthy. 46:39 So he'll play six positions, including be the best tight end in football, also the number two receiver, maybe play left tack or guard. 46:46 We'll say everything will be fine 'cause Tucker Kraft, when you make him the highest paid tight end in the universe, will play all of those positions for you. 46:55 I'm sorry, can I tell- He, he's the sal- he's the salve for the whole thing, right? [laughs] He's the salve, yes. Don't worry. 47:00 Don't worry, your, your tight end will be fine, and that m- means everything else will be fine. [laughs] Yeah. U- um, i- it's gonna be, I think it's gonna be a slog. 47:09 A- and it just seems like they needed this to get through this camp healthy. No team ever gets through training camp- No... fully healthy. Right. It just doesn't happen. 47:17 But they put themselves behind such an eight ball with all of the talent that they walked, uh, that walk out of the building. You don't, you don't bring back Clay Walker. Yeah. 47:25 All of a sudden, uh, i- if, if Edrem Cooper's banged up, w- where do you turn to, right? You know, you- Right... you trade away Rashan Gary like he's, you know, yesterday's bag of donuts. Yes. 47:37 You're relying on Baron Sorell and Denai Dennis Sutton. I liked Denai, watched him a lot at Penn State, high motor guy. 47:43 He was a fourth-round pick for a reason here, and you're gonna ask him to play meaningful snaps as a rookie. Right, and you got rid of Kingsley A- uh, Anigbare too, so it's like- Anigbare, yeah... 47:52 oh, and the, the, the starter and the backup and the other guy. And, and then you commit to the guys on your bench. And I keep saying this, folks, it's not the Madden algorithm. 48:02 When you draft somebody in the first round, the computer just doesn't up his stats while he's sitting on the bench. That's not how it works. Sometimes these, these players do not pan out. 48:11 And when they've demonstrated, like Van Ness, over m- multiple seasons, they're like, "Ah, he's been passed on the b- depth chart by the other guy and the other guy and the other guy." 48:19 Sure, there's a chance they break out. 48:21 More often than not, they're telling you that this is what they are, the situational player, role player, not somebody you can count on to be the first-round pick you hoped they would be. 48:29 Not to mention, I don't love their corners. I think their corner- Yeah... corners are full of jags. I think next year- Just the guys, you know? Yeah. Safeties are great. 48:36 Yeah, Xavier McKinney and Evan Williams both could potentially be Pro Bowlers this year. 48:41 I, I, I'm just very skeptical of their corners, and now you're asking Average-ish cornerbacks to hold on for dear life without the impact of the pass rush that you built your whole defense on, it, it just seems like 48:55 it could be a struggle, it could be a slog in Green Bay early on, uh, if Micah Parsons is out for those games. I've been saying it for weeks, and weeks, and weeks, and weeks. Yes, you have. 49:08 Speaking of the Cowboys, you got a Cowboys note. Yes, uh, Quinnen Williams got paid, as his agent Nicole Minn posted on social media yesterday, "Does anybody have a Brinks truck?" 49:19 After agreeing to terms with Jerry Jones. Three years, $105.9 million to Quinnen Williams, a centerpiece of that defense locked up long-term, and I think this has really interesting, um, undertones- Okay... 49:35 if you will, to last season's Michael Parsons trade. That's what I was gonna say. 49:40 Uh, uh, the, the Cowboys have money now for the older guy, not the younger guy, but they have money now for Williams, who, again, I think, while I think he's officially listed as an end, is probably capitalizing on what we think of as the defensive tackle market to a degree. 49:55 For sure, and you know, I peek behind the curtain here. I do a weekly podcast appearance with a podcast based out of Syracuse. Okay. 50:01 And last week they asked me if the Cowboys may actually come out winning the Micah Parsons trade. Yeah. And, and I kinda s- I, I kinda scoffed at that- Mm-hmm... 50:11 'cause I'm like, all right, you know, the, you're, you're kinda retooling and rebuilding and reshuffling defensively in Dallas. In Green Bay, it's Super Bowl or bust, and I think that- Oh... 50:20 Parsons, when healthy, with the young roster, with Jordan Love, I think they have a window in Green Bay if everything- Yeah... goes right, but it hasn't gone right. Right, right. 50:28 But, you know, you start to think about it, a- and you tell me. I'm, I'm gonna make the case to you. You have Quinnen Williams now. You were able to trade. 50:37 Um, they draft Malachi Lawrence with the Micah Parsons pick, uh, which resets both the financial and the age clock at pass rusher. Mm-hmm. 50:46 They had Caleb Downs fall into their lap with their own pick in the draft, and at least on paper, right, am I crazy to think that this has the chance to be at least an average, maybe an above average defense? 51:00 Like, say what you will about Rashan Gary, Rashan Gary's a competent, at least rotational pass rusher. 51:06 You got Kenny Clark to stop the run in the Micah Parsons trade, and when you have an average to above average defense with that offense, and Dak Prescott, and CeeDee Lamb, and George Pickens, and they're gonna light up the scoreboard, like if you're average to above average on defense, chance to be pretty good in Dallas, right? 51:25 I, I'm holding up right now a book called the, uh, Aaron Schatz's FTN Football Almanac 2026. Let me see if I can read this right now. "Was Jerry Jones right? 51:36 The Cowboys, as you recall, traded Micah Parsons last August..." Uh, it goes on for a little bit. This, this, this author has a chan- He tends to babble a little bit. 51:43 But then it goes on to list in bullet points, which I'm holding up, all the people that the Cowboys got in exchange for Micah Parsons, kinda like what you just did. 51:52 Now, this author is a fellow by the name of, you may have heard of him, Mike Tanier. 51:58 So, the, uh, the argument I think is, is, the fact that I wrote way too many words about this, it's an argument worth exploring, because so much- Yeah... 52:07 came back to the Cowboys, because if you start looking at how they traded down with some of these picks and got some of these Malachi Lawrence type guys, it adds to that, and then you can say, well, they also saved all that money. 52:18 Now, some of that money is now in the Williams extension. Some of it went out to some of the, the, the rank and file, like, cornerbacks and safeties, Jalen Thompson. 52:26 And, and, and there, there's an argument to, to, to be made that Quinnen Williams is the type of ascending player that you'd want- Yeah... to lock up long-term. Right. 52:33 So you're just shuffling the money from Micah Parsons to Quinnen Williams while creating the flexibility to add all of the other guys, all the potential defensive playmakers, to possibly- Mm-hmm... 52:43 foster a quick turnaround on defense. Right. Now, at some point it also looks like we traded one blue chip for how many white chips? And that becomes- Yeah... the other question. 52:55 Like, we have this one super special thing, or you can have 5,000 of these common things. Uh, most people would be like, wait, the 5,000 common things might not be as good. You don't want like 3,000 boxes of comic books. 53:08 You want Action Comics number one. That's what you want. But it does, it, it changes when it's like, well, it's not 3,000 boxes. 53:13 What's in there happens to be a Amazing Spider-Man number five and a, and a Daredevil number three or an X-Men number one or whatever. So we know there's good stuff in the boxes too, and this is your big special thing. 53:24 It does start to tilt the conversation a little bit. 53:27 You don't wanna give the Cowboys too much credit, but you also don't wanna do the thing that I'm guilty of, you're guilty of, we're all guilty of, which is LOL Cowboys, ROTFL Cowboys, Jerry's a nitwit, et cetera, et cetera. 53:39 I don't think the Micah Parsons trade was a smart move by any stretch of the imagination. It destroyed last season to a degree. Yeah. 53:45 But at least coming out of it, they've amortized and mitigated it and turned it into enough resources on the other end where you can say, "Okay, they can move forward from this with what they've acquired and put together." 53:58 Yeah, you talk about the boxes of comic books. There were empty boxes at some of these positions before. Right. Right? Yeah. And, a- and now you have guys that you can at least look at and say the- there's a plan here. 54:08 Right. And, you know, they're always gonna win on offense. They're always gonna be the team that scores 30 points per game, but they're gonna give up 35 to 37. Yes. That might not be the case this year- Right... 54:18 with the additions that they made. 54:19 A- a- and, you know, th- they, they gave up a lot of points with Micah Parsons, and, and I'm, I, I don't wanna be in the position to defend Jerry Jones, because I think that Micah Parsons is the piece that ultimately- Right... 54:29 in the next two or so years puts the Packers over the top to win a Super Bowl. 54:33 I don't know that all of the pieces in Dallas are going to be enough to make that kind of an impact, but I do, I do respect that they didn't just sit on that money. I, I do respect- Right... 54:43 that they didn't just, you know, spend it on, um, a 32-year-old offensive tackle. [laughs] Right. 54:48 That they didn't go the Commander's route, that it seems like there's a vision and a plan, that they're trying to reset things and restock what had been an empty cupboard even with Micah Parsons being there. 54:59 That's the case. I think the Cowboys are a team that have to be taken seriously, uh- Yeah... 55:02 before and after this deal, and it's a, a, a, a recognition of the fact that, yes, they s- often do things right and are usually a dangerous team. 55:10 We'll see what happens if they self-destruct, but they don't look like they're self-destructing right now. And that division's gonna be wild, because- Right... 55:17 the Eagles are the Eagles, and I think that they're kind of in that middle ground where they've drafted really well over the last few years, they have this core group of veterans, but what's the offense gonna look like? 55:28 Right. A- and what does it look like in 2027 and 2028 e- either way, whether this goes well or goes poorly. Right. Um, y- you have the Commanders who we spent a lot of time on, and the Giants- Mm-hmm... 55:39 we're, we're gonna see the Giants on- Yeah... Thursday. We're both gonna be up there at training camp. We might do a mini pod afterwards. Um, but what are you looking to see? 55:47 Because I, I think the Giants could sneakily be really interesting and maybe even competitive, uh, this year. We've got... 55:56 All during the off-season, we've had this rollercoaster of the Giants, 'cause they had a really productive early off-season and we were excited. Uh, and then of course Malik Nabers' injury, and then we're not excited. 56:07 And then Nabers looks like he's gonna be able to play, whatever, we're going to get more. We might not be getting the full story, that, so to speak, of what's going on with Nabers. Maybe we'll see a little bit more. 56:16 Uh, I wanna see Jaxson Dart because- Yeah... I think r- Jaxson Dart did not really impress me except early on when it was, like, exciting to see the new guy. 56:26 Um, and, and I think it's kind of funny because one of the big stories that's been coming out in the last couple days is the slide Jaxson slide story, 56:34 where there's all kinds of enthusiasm when Jaxson Dart actually slides, and coaches are employing him to slide, et cetera. 56:41 I wanna see a little, uh, a little base running practice [laughs] when I'm up there in East Rutherford. I wa- I, I wanna see if the lad has figured out, get out of bounds, slide. 56:48 Obviously no one can touch you in training camp. That doesn't mean you can't practice, go through the rep of what you're doing is, I ran 10 yards up the middle field, and I did my, um... 56:59 I'm trying to name somebody who slides. I'm so bad at baseball now. Ricky Henderson? Ricky Henderson. He slid a lot when he was alive. I know who he was. He's still playing, right? Uh, I think he's dead, but okay. 57:10 [laughs] Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my God, I'm sorry. That, that's all right. It's all right. Geez. You're not a baseball guy. It's okay. I, I, [laughs] I, I led you to a poisonous well right there. 57:19 That, that was on me, I shouldn't have led you down, [laughs] I shouldn't have led you down that path. It, it's okay. Ricky, that was Ricky, right? But, but I get it. [laughs] I, yeah. [laughs] Am I dead? 57:32 What do you, what do you wanna- Anyway... what do you wanna see in, uh, Giants camp? 57:36 I, I wanna see, we hear all this talk about John Harbaugh is apparently, like, grinding these guys into the ground, and that it's been this- Yeah, okay... 57:42 like, really physical camp, and bunch of bumps and bruises are starting to mount. Like, I, I wanna see what that attitude is looking like, and if the physicality is translating there. 57:53 'Cause going up last summer, it was like a three-ring circus. It was like the carnival came into town. Every- everybody was so pumped to be there. It was the good ship, m- uh, the good ship table was up there. Yeah. 58:03 Yeah, yeah. Everybody was so fired up about Jaxson Dart, and Russell Wilson was rejuvenated, and Ami Cubbits. They had all these guys who were competent quarterbacks, and it was gonna be great. 58:13 All these quarterbacks are awesome. Well, it didn't quite pan out that way. Right. And it seems like they just wanna, like, punch you in the teeth, and they have the tools to punch you in the teeth with that pass rush. 58:24 Right. And they got better on defense overall, they got better at offensive tackle. I wanna see if we're gonna see some fights. Like, are we gonna see some, like, training camp fights? 58:32 Like, they're not o- at, at The Greenbrier, they're not down in the hills of West Virginia, and it's all scenic. And even when you're pissed off at the guy across from you, how mad can you really be? 58:42 'Cause you look up and you got, like, the hills and the mountains there. Mm-hmm. And, "Oh, take me home- Yeah. [laughs]... country roads," right? God. [laughs] You're in East Rutherford. 58:50 Will we see that physicality really translate in practice, and what does it look like, what does it sound like coming from players about this new culture there? Were you there when the, uh, the coaches fought? 59:01 [laughs] I was not. Okay. Okay. I was just wondering if you saw, uh, saw that particular... That was a couple years ago. 59:07 Anyway, but yeah, it is a different environment in East Rutherford when the, when the bugs are stinging at your ankles and things like that, and it's just a heat dome there. 59:16 Wouldn't mind seeing a little phys- physicality, seeing a little hitting. I'm a little shaken 'cause I did just check, and yes, Ricky Henderson passed away- Yeah... in 2024, and it's, now, it's just hitting me now. 59:25 Uh, other people have had time to adapt to this, but rest in power, Ricky. I'm excited to see that. Um, what's next? What do you got? What, what, what do we have on the, what, what's even happening right now? 59:36 Well, we're, we're gonna get to your preseason viewing guide. Um, th- are, are there games that you are watching, uh, that you're tuned in for, for this week? Is this what's coming up on the TV? 59:46 'Cause I, I, I, I need a viewing guide. I need to, like- Right... go over to my coffee table and get the TV guide out and figure out which games I need to care about this week. Well, here's the thing. You said it right. 59:56 We're sickos. You watch some of it, then you go read a book. You watch, uh, some, and you play with the kids a little bit and watch some Bluey. That's usually the way to do it. A couple of games on Thursday night. 1:00:05 I think we talked about how on Friday night you're gonna see a little bit of Joe Burrow and Ja'Marr Chase. Yeah. And the thing I put on the, uh, schedule was blunted a little bit, 'cause here's the big thing. 1:00:13 Saturday, 1:00, on the NFL Network, the Browns will be playing. 1:00:17 So if you wanna go into sicko mode to see Deshaun and see Shador and see Dylan Gabriel, and try to, like, prognosticate for yourself how that's going to go, Deshaun's going to win, they picked him in March. 1:00:29 But if you wanna see how that's really gonna go, you watch that. Now simultaneously, at 1:00 on Saturday, if you have NFL+ or any other way of doing this, the Vikings are playing. 1:00:41 I forget who they're playing against right now. I can pull it up, but I, I'm sorry, I d- I, I got rid of that particular screen. Um, but you could have seen J.J. McCarthy, Kyler Murray, you might still see them. 1:00:52 You might get a look at- It's Vikings-Giants. You get Vikings-Giants at 1:00. So you get, you get J.J., but you get, uh, Kyler Murray Against the Giants Right, and you might see a little Jackson in that game. 1:01:02 We'll know more, probably we'll get told who's gonna play there. But you'll see a little bit of that as well. 1:01:06 So Sunday, Saturday at 1:00, Saturday at 1 o'clock, you'll see the two big quarterback controversies, one of which has been tamped down, but you'll still probably wanna see what's going on there. 1:01:16 And then it's preseason football from 1:00 till about 2:00. You'll see all you need to see of that, then go on with your life. Go- Go to the pool. Yeah, go to the pool. The rest of it'll be there when you get back. 1:01:28 And come probably Monday morning, I don't know when you plan to write next, you and I will be there with all the updates, all the action. 1:01:35 So you- Yeah, I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to check in on, like, the NFL+ replays of- Yeah... 1:01:40 Saturday's games because, uh, it's my wedding anniversary, so the last place I'm gonna be is in the command center watching, you know, third stringers- Right... versus fourth stringers. Wow. 1:01:49 But, but I need you to help me with something here. Yes. Yes. So you've gone out to dinner. Well, you've dined with me in the past. You know what kind of a picky eater I am, right? It's, uh, you, when it's you, 1:02:02 and I'm not going to call out, but there's another Matt- Yes... out there in the world, and the two of you are not just picky, but you are picky on the exact opposite things. It is, we are eating chicken fingers. 1:02:15 I know we're just eating chicken fingers when it's you guys, but you are particularly picky. So what, what's, what's going on here? So I, I, I've turned 40, and I've aimed to, like... 1:02:25 It, it used to just be the default if I've never had it before, that means I don't like it, which is why I'm picky. Yes. Yeah. 1:02:30 I should have probably worked that out in therapy, like, 15 years ago, but, you know, I'm 40, and I'm just deciding now that I, hey, if I haven't tried it, let's just try it. 1:02:37 You don't wanna, I don't wanna die tomorrow and, and never eat a steak. And well, I've, I've never eaten a steak, so. You've never eaten a steak? 1:02:45 So that, that's where we're going here because [laughs] we were given an obscenely large gift card as a gift, right? And we're planning on using it, going out on Saturday night- Mm-hmm... 1:02:55 uh, using this gift card at, at, at one of the steakhouses, uh, down in Philly, and I've decided this is when I'm going to try the steak. 1:03:03 This is when I'm going to try to eat the steak for the first time, and I've looked at this establishment's menu, and they, they have something I'm really excited about. Mm-hmm. 1:03:11 But I don't know if it should be the first steak. Okay. Right? It's a New York strip- Yes... but it's dry ru- it's rubbed with the Kona coffee rub. And, and I love coffee. 1:03:22 I love things that are buttery and all those sort of things, so I'm imagining a buttery coffee adjacent flavor profile on the steak- Okay... New York strip. Mm-hmm. 1:03:31 It- Should, should I go with what I'm excited about and order this, or is there a better option for a cheeseburger loving, never had a steak before, uh, red-blooded male? There's so much unpacking to do here. 1:03:42 Well, I, I gotta start- I, I know there is... who, who got you the gift certificate to the steakhouse? I, it was, uh, actually it's one of my wife's... She's a teacher. 1:03:50 One of the, the families at the end of the year- Oh, wow... gives an appreciation gift to the teachers, and we were floored by when she opened up the envelope. That was, that's amazing, that's wonderful. 1:04:00 So it's not a close relative, say, in-law, who is trying to set you up in some way to force you to eat steak. No, it's a testament- Okay... to how elite she is at her job, that people- Yeah... 1:04:10 care enough about her and the impact that she made, uh, do- doing- Right... what she does best, that they would give us this sort of a gift. But no- Okay... 1:04:16 they were not trying to, like, set me up to go and order a cheeseburger. Right. When you've gone to steakhouses in the past, you've ordered cheeseburgers? No, no, no, no. I usually do, like, the lobster tail, okay? 1:04:26 But why not do that? Like the, the twin, the twin lobster tails, which is what I would probably go with now, but I'm, I, I'm, I'm trying to mature and become more refined in my, in my 40s. It, it, it's- No, no, no. I-... 1:04:38 the new Matt As a non-seafood eater, like, lobster tail's a perfectly good one. You get through life, no one questions you. You don't look like the guy who's ordering the burger at 40 at the place. Right. 1:04:48 So you, you've got yourself covered in that, in that place. So get that steak. If it's the steak that excites you, then you should definitely go with it. Don't be afraid to order medium well, or even well. 1:04:59 I wouldn't go well, but medium well. Don't listen to the steak people who are like, "You have to get it medium rare," et cetera. It's your first steak, okay? 1:05:05 You might be put off by how much chewing and stuff like that is involved with it. 1:05:09 And I'm going to give you advice that I would give a six-year-old, or the parent of a six-year-old: cut it extremely thin, okay, very small strips, so that you... 1:05:18 And, and chew, chew, chew, chew, chew because you might be surprised by how much chewing you have to do on a steak if it's your first steak when you're age 40. That's good knowledge. 1:05:27 See, I would have, I would have not known that. I, medium well is what I ha- was planning going into this with- Yes... 'cause I order my burgers medium well. Um, so yeah. 1:05:35 But the thin cuts and the chew, chew, chew on the New York strip, I think that that's, that's the move. I think that's how we- Right... how we experience this and have a good experience so that maybe- Yeah... 1:05:44 I'll actually enjoy steaks i- and for the, the latter half of my life. Your, your wife is an educator, so she knows the Heimlich maneuver. She does, yes. 1:05:53 [laughs] You said "she does" way too quick there, like, as if it's been done to you. Not, not to me, but- Okay, never mind... I, I've witnessed, I've witnessed it. [laughs] I'm, I'm prying too much. 1:06:02 So we're under con- [laughs] This is really getting deep. I like when you were talking about ha- going to therapy at age 25, and it's like, that might have been good for all of us. [laughs] Yeah. 1:06:12 Might have been good for all of us at this point. I don't think therapy existed when I was 25, but yes, fair enough. 1:06:16 But no, go there, get this steak, enjoy it, and that's a good opportunity to broaden your horizons a little bit. By the way- Yeah... 1:06:23 you'll probably be out of commission for the rest of the night in terms of digesting the steak. It's very tricky to digest. So be ready to just kinda hit the couch afterwards. Watch some- Sounds like a plan... 1:06:32 watch some preseason- Watch some preseason football. Yes. Yeah. Wonderful. Okay. All right, so we'll be up in East Rutherford on Thursday. Looking forward to that. It should be a ton of fun. 1:06:41 Um, first training camp for you in a little bit, right? Uh, since you've been out boots on the ground. It's been so long. I think it was 2023, which is still pretty- Yeah... long. 1:06:51 Uh, and it's exci- I wanna see some hitting again. I, I saw some hitting at the Senior Bowl and everything. I wanna see a little bit of hitting again. I'm excited for that. 1:06:57 What else do we have coming up on the Deep Zone? Well, again, we're gonna talk a little bit about the upcoming games. 1:07:02 I think Thursday we're gonna be posting that, and then on Monday I'm gonna pretend it was a real NFL Sunday, even though it was more of a NFL Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and give you as much coverage of what was going on, any starters that played, any interesting rookies that played, any undrafted free agents from Connecticut. 1:07:19 Did you see that kid, Joe, uh, Fagnano, in Baltimore, the fourth-string quarterback? Did you see him at all? Did not see much of him, or didn't, didn't take notice. 1:07:29 [laughs] He lo- uh, look him up because it looks like the Ravens went and tried to find the young Joe Flacco lookalike contest winner, and found Joey Fagnano to replace Joey Flacco. 1:07:44 Uh, and just look up the, the, the, the visuals of him. Uh, he, he is, he's my spiritual nephew now. Um, but- Awesome... yeah, but we, we'll see. 1:07:51 From, from, from Yukon by way of Maine, by way of Williamsport, by way of Little Italy. Williamsport, my mother's hometown, so shout out to- Yeah, there you go... 1:08:00 Williamsport, home of the, uh, Little League World Series. 1:08:03 We'll have the practice recap, the postcard on Thursday coming out of practice, uh, the mailbag on Friday, four downs, we'll have a bit of a deeper dive into the Giants situation and, uh, some surprises. 1:08:13 I'll try to get into my preseason takeaways Monday as well. We'll try to communicate so we don't overlap and profile the same, uh, rising fourth-round picks and such. But hey, it's preseason. Preseason. 1:08:24 We all talk about the same guys, you and 30 other people. Jacoby Lane, man, it's like, yeah, that's what we have to do. If it's real, it's real. It's news. 1:08:30 People more, more than one person reports if there's, like, an earthquake, it's not just one guy's exclusive, you know what I'm saying? God. He's Mike Tanier, go subscribe to the Deep Zone. 1:08:39 It's mandatory reading, it's appointment reading every Monday throughout the week. Follow him on Blue Sky, @miketanier. 1:08:46 Please go ahead and subscribe in the Apple Podcast store, uh, on iHeartRadio, and Amazon Alexa app to the Between the Hash Marks podcast. And really trying to grow my presence on YouTube. 1:08:56 Check us out there, @mattlombardo975, and of course subscribe to betweenthehashmarks.com. 1:09:01 It's a really great time, Mike, to have people subscribe, either as free subscribers to the Deep Zone, paid subscribers to the Deep Zone, subscribers to betweenthehashmarks.com. 1:09:11 Season's starting up, independent journalism, uh, we're the ones footing the bill for the gas and the hotels and all those things on the training camp tour. 1:09:19 Your support allows us to host this podcast every week and do the kind of exclusive reporting, uh, and analysis that you've come to know and love and expect from both of us. Absolutely. 1:09:28 Your, your support means a lot to us, especially at the end of a podcast. When I start fading and getting dark and weird, you sustain me. You sustain us. We w- well, I'll see you on Thursday, partner. All right. 1:09:39 And we will talk to you guys next week on the Between the Hash Marks podcast. Uh, have a great week, and we'll talk to you from, uh, the swamps of Jersey. [laughs] Take care, everybody.
